Wanted: comments on e-cigarettes
Wednesday, January 20, 2010 I am on the road or in meetings for much of the day so I'll leave you to discuss e-cigarettes.
According to the headline on the BBC website today: "Proof lacking on e-cigarettes safety, experts warn".
If you think about this, the headline could equally read: "No proof that e-cigarettes cause harm, experts say" ... but that's not really much of a story.
I was asked to comment but I don't know very much about e-cigarettes and I didn't want to say something for the hell of it. Eventually, after a bit of thought, I said:
"Given what we currently know [about e-cigarettes], there seems little cause for alarm and I would caution against any form of scaremongering.
"I don't know anyone who uses e-cigarettes as a permanent replacement for cigarettes, but they are useful in certain situations - on a long-haul flight, for example - where smoking is banned.
"That apart, they can be quite expensive so I can't imagine anyone using them for any length of time, or in any quantity, so one would assume that the health risks, if any, are minimal."
They didn't use it.
Full story HERE.
The video above is courtesy of a website called Mini Cigarette. If anyone uses or has tried an e-cigarette, perhaps you'd like to comment.
Simon Clark
Thanks for your comments. I've learned a lot about e-cigarettes I didn't know before. Very useful.
Reader Comments (111)
The reason anti-smoking groups want them banned is because they look like cigarettes, just like sweet cigarettes.
E-cigarettes? How about E-butter, as that seems to be the latest product on the doom-mongers list of bannits? It would be quite nice really, no more messy fingers, covered in that awful buttery stuff, just open the pack and take out a square of butter flavoured film, which you place on your toast or crumpet, whatever turns you on, and hey-presto, away you go. No cholesterol, no mess, and most importantly, no more fat kids, just nice, slim, robotic morons who believe everything they read.
Full story link doesn't work.
If nicotine inhalers are safe then ecigs probably are. The only other ingredient is that which is used for stage smoke. Anti-smoking hates them because they resemble cigarettes and prevent the enforcement of smoking bans using cctv, for example in cars with children, which will come; and on station platforms. The genie is well out of the bottle though now: Ryanair sells them on its aeroplanes. I don't think the Gov would dare ban them, although they will, ultimately unsuccessfully, try somehow to make them subject to the current ban.
Firstly I would suggest a look here http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/ highly recommended.
Its a big issue in the US already (its known as vaping there) with attempts to have them banned by the FDA, there are some completely insane statements being made by Ash type groups in connection so I've been waiting for us to see the same over here, inevitable really.
Both my partner & I use them to cut down on our smoking, he's been through the full gammut of Nico-sub products with no results, went through 3 wks of hell with Champix and the ecigs are the only thing that have worked for him, he has major issues with nicotine withdrawl when he tries to cut down.
As far as I can tell, they contain a similar nicotine dose as a typical patch, they are clean and just as safe chemically according to the few studies done, and it appears that there is little or no differencce in the chemical make up between ecigs & inhalers, the site I've linked to does have some data on that.
The difference is they allow smokers to look & feel like they are smoking without all the alleged health issues, something which seems to really upset the rabid antis & their donors, its not about health its the association and its really bringing out some interesting revelations on the mindset of the anits.
Personally, I've gone days with just my ecig with no problems, the basic packs cost about £40 and the cartridges are about £8 for 5 so cost wise no real difference but great when in the company of someone you're not comfortable smoking near or where its illegal.
The original link is at http://bbchealth.asseenonmadness.com/2010/01/19/no-proof-e-cigarettes-are-safe/ by the way.
One more cooment, I find ironic the use of the 'Scant Data' sub-heading, Is the author refering to safety studies or her own sources?
As a user of ecigs I can see at least one factual error, vapouriser cartridges can be refilled or they can be bought in varying strengths from high strength to no nicotine, so the variance in doseage comment is absolute nonsense.
(Sorry for the rant)
The piece on the BBC site is based on a Personal Opinion in the BMJ.
Some of the facts are incorrect. The Recent interim ruling by Judge Leon means the FDA can no longer block e-cigs coming into the US and they can not be classed as Drug delivery devices at this time.
The reference to 'Powerful carcinogens' seems to go back to the FDA report on e-cigs which found TSNAs in some of the carts tested. This can come from the tobacco extracted nicotine and they are also present in nicotine patches (not mentioned by the BBC). Recently further testing by the manufacturer Njoy, I believe has shown their carts do not contain any TSNAs. TSNAs could possibly be removed from Tobacco cigarettes though that is another story.
On e-cigs in general, in terms of safety, they have been on the Market for a few years now and in the case mentioned above Judge Leon said the FDA brought in no evidence of harm to public health.
In the US many Anti-smoking groups have come out against them, though in the UK this hasn't happened.
Vaping does mimic Smoking. Yet it is not the same. Some PVs (e-cigs) do not contain nicotine at all.
In safety terms, they seem pretty safe for both the user and the bystander. The issue of SHS does not arise. In deed in comparison to inhalers and patches they seem to be as safe as these 'approved' products.
They are not NRT and they are not Tobacco. Some of the less fashionable e-cigs could be confused with smoking a cigarette though the current versions have blue tips and come in different colours (Black, silver, gold) rather than the white which the BBC show. The old image of the 'fake fag' is slow disipating. This clearly differentiates them from a cigarette.
In use terms, they are useful in places where you can not smoke. Some people have switched completely, some smoke and vape. They are a choice for people that some take to.
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Just to add....
Simon noted:
"That apart, they can be quite expensive so I can't imagine anyone using them for any length of time, or in any quantity, so one would assume that the health risks, if any, are minimal."
Simon, people do use them full-time.
There are initial costs and on-going costs The on-going cost can be a lot less than cigarettes as carts can be refilled, though given the fashion accesories associated with PVs (e-cigs) the cost goes back up.
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Indeed they are used by lots of people full time, myself included. I'm approaching 6 months not smoking now thanks to e-cigs and I'm certainly not alone as can be seen by the thousands of members of forums dedicated to the subject.
The BBC clearly have not done their research properly for this article, instead they've chosen to run the heavily biased FDA line.
What a load of old tosh being spoke on here concerning these silly little toy fags.
You are all talking about them as if they are real. What is wrong with you people? If you smoke you smoke, that is it, end of story. You do not blow out clouds of vapour, like a child with a bubble pipe.
You are being conned big time. Smoking is all about the taste and smell of tobacco, these toy fags do not contain real tobacco leaf, just some supposed nicotine extract, and what bloody good is that?
Get it into your heads, YOU ARE NOT ADDICTS. The antis try to paint smokers as addicts in order for you to feel bad about smoking. DO NOT TAKE ANY NOTICE OF THEM.
Smoking tobacco is a pleasure, playing with these silly little toys make you look like an idiot.
Actually Gregory, I think it's you who has just made yourself look like an idiot...
Oh Gregory. No.
Smoking USED to be about the taste and smell of tobacco - which frankly as a reasonably heavy smoker I never truly enjoyed, would always want tea of coffee with my smoke. Now, the enjoyment of these devices is that the tastes and flavours are unlimited - some people stay with tobacco tastes others don't.
I gave up smoking the day mine arrived, I am not an anti smoker, I am a pro vaper. How many years have we smokers said, I love smoking, I know the risks to my health but I just can't give up - if ONLY they would invent a healthier cigarette.
They did.
Not proven healthy, but certainly healthiER.
There may be trace carcinogens in them, but there are carcinogens in the air we breathe from cars, chemicals and in our home from various products.
Non smokers die of cancer every day.
I don't feel conned, I feel saved. My smokers wheeze and cough went in a day of use, I don't smell of stale tobacco and train journeys are fun again. I'm hoping my health will be vastly improved and best of all I enjoy it far more than I did smoking.
Alice, if smoking made you feel breathless or whatever, then quite clearly, smoking wasn't for you, and you were right to give up, but to give up something that tastes and smells so good (and it is a lie that it makes your clothes smell) just to start playing with these toy fags, is an insult to your own intelligence.
Use your own brain Alice, not some big company's marketing wheeze. SMOKERS ARE NOT ADDICTS. If you want to stop smoking, it is the same as stopping drinking coffee or eating cream buns, a little difficult at first, but you can do it if you really want to. My brother did, and he hasn't smoked for over 3 years now.
E-cigs are more fun. Toy fags that don't make you ill. If you don't want to give up your nicotine, you can now stop paying a fortune for traditional cigarettes with their 4000 other poisonous ingredients AND also say no to the quit or die brigade and their loopy arguments.
No will power required.
Caes. Gave up without meaning to...haha. True.
Gregory, you are clearly an idiot, sorry to be blunt but you obviously have no clue what you are talking about.
Firstly, addiction is not always about chemical dependance, it can also be about habit. The instinctive feeling as a smoker when having a drink that something is missing when you can't have a smoke, because its something you've always done in the past, the urge to light up after a meal etc. etc.
Depriving yourself of those habitual cigs can make you bad tempered and throw you off kilter (to put it mildly). Sorry to say we are not all like your brother, some struggle to give up, some don't want to but have to for health reasons, some are even placed under extreme pressure by their employers to give up.
I wish the world was really as black and white as you seem to believe but it isn't, this may shock you but smokers come in all shapes and sizes and one solution does not fit all.
As to taste etc, I've found ecigs do actually taste very similar to my cigs, my own preference is for a harsher smoke so I find them a little smooth for my taste, but they certainly offer a good substitute, they also have an impact on physical effects, both my partner & I have had better peak flow results since using ecigs as a partial substitute.
As an aside just which big company are you refering to, as far as I'm aware the largest problem behind ecigs is that 'Big Pharma' (a term I loathe) view ecigs as a potential threat to their lucrative Nic-Subs industry and there are a number of companies producing these items, none of whom are particularly large.
We seem to have ASH posters on the site again...welcome!
I agree with you Tom, this Kat person is most definitely a plant.All that silly rubbish about how much we must depend on this and that. The only thing I depend on is the air that I breath.
Spot on Rebus,stand up for yourself, or ourselves, and show that we are not dependent on anything (except air) Tell the likes of Kat and Caes to get back to where they came from, under the big ASH stone.
Oh dear, please don't tell me to use my brain - as though I were either 9 or stupid.
I'm neither.
Smokers who have not used this product either think it foolish, ineffective or threatening.
Non Smokers DO NOT UNDERSTAND and never will.
Gregory - I'm not brainwashed, nor did I buy exclusively from a BIG company, but also small independent ones. Cigarettes make you smell - fact not lie... the fact that you may like the smell does not dispute the actuality.
We can go on forever with nonsense.
The facts are that whilst smokers and non smokers alike may not like it - there is a product that is healthier, non smelling, tasty and enjoyable - and we all love it.
And instead of trying to be evangelical perhaps we ought to just stay in our fantastic groups of enlightened, fun, intelligent vapers and feel great about ourselves and laugh with enjoyment, instead of casting pearls to swine.
Looks like we've got a good one going here, so if you don't mind, I am going to get my two-penneth in on this one.
I admit that I have never tried these E things, but I also have to admit that if I was on a train or in a pub or restaurant, and saw someone sucking away on a little plastic tube, as if it were a baby's dummy, I would want to burst out laughing.
You have the real thing if you want to smoke, so why suck a plastic tube that makes you look like a tit?
Gosh, Talk about muddying the waters Gregory! As a smoker for 48 years, I have nothing but hostility towards ASH.
I don't look down on smokers. I was a happy smoker till last year and I am a happy e-cig user now. Better a live "tit" than another casualty of the war between the Big Tobacco barons and the do-gooders. There is a third way and it is logical and sensible as well as fun.
Now I get it, these people work for the e-fag company. Nice try guys.
I didn't want to quit smoking but found that I liked vaping more.
Vaping is not for everyone but if anyone is interested in finding out more there is an ever expanding community with a lot of information.
vapersnetwork.org
(it is logical and sensible as well as fun)
Wow, I can't wait to suck one. Please send me an order form ASAP. I can't wait to join in the fun....wheeee.
Rebus and withnall - if you scroll to the top of the page you will see that the author writes that he does not have experience of this and wanted comment from those that have.
I did that, not trying to convert you, not taking your enjoyment of smoking away.
I don't work for the companies and quite honestly couldn't care a toss whether you want to smoke them.
I was asked for my opinion and my experience.
My experience has been good, I stopped smoking without actually wanting to.
The sarcasm and childishness is not appreciated.
For all the ASH trolls on here, and the E-Fag makers who want to push their rubbish onto us, I have a feeling this about the government's latest move to ban smoking in private cars. I have just seen this article on it where you can have you say, see here
I was going to comment, as requested in the original article, but since things have already descended into a polarised turdspurt of pointless ejecta, where it seems vitriol, paranoia and spite count louder than real opinons and information, I'll just follow the trend, instead.
Dolts.
I have no connections with any commercial firms either. I reiterate that the world is not composed uniquely of do-gooder quangoes and rapacious business barons.
Caes, an ordinary bod who found a way to go which has nothing to do with ASH or with rampant Consumerism either. How sad that you see propaganda where there is none.
I bought an e-cig about 6 months or so ago. It's not as good as the real thing. It's like a very, very, extra-mild cigarette. But it's better than nothing when I drop into my local pub (which I haven't been doing much since the ban). A few weeks back I actually enjoyed being inside a pub for the first time in two and a half years, and even played a game of pool. Wonderful. I asked the landlord beforehand if I could use it, which seemed like the diplomatic thing to do.
I have no plans to give up smoking. In fact, I utterly refuse to. But I can well see that if someone wants to give up, then e-cigs are probably a very good way, if you progressively reduce the nicotine concentrations.
It also came in surprisingly handy a couple of months or so back, when I developed a cold and then a prolonged cough. For several days I completely gave up smoking, and just used the e-cig, which was entirely non-irritating.
I don't use mine much, but I think they're great. If nothing else, they're definitely very 'subversive', because in many respects using them is just like smoking. Which is, of course, why the antis hate them.
I suspect that they're going to become the drug-delivery system of the 21st century, because it's quite obviously not just nicotine that can be vapourised, but any volatile compound at all. I'm sure they could be used for all sorts of legal pharmacological compounds, like asthma inhalers. And for all sorts of illegal ones as well. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if there are already lots of people loading them up with THC (tetrahydrocannabinol).
The price could do with coming down a bit. But the price probably will fall, since they're a new product.
They'll never replace cigarettes or pipes or cigars though. Not a chance.
We seem to have ASH posters on the site again...welcome!
I'm surprised at the intensity of some people's remarks here. E-cigs aren't 'toy cigarettes' That makes them sound like the sugar ones you used to be able to buy 20-30 years ago. They deliver a cloud of nicotine vapour, in a variety of flavours (which I haven't tried yet), and they do a useful job. And the one I've got is a very well-engineered piece of kit. It's not the same as sucking on a biro or something. And who cares what it looks like? I don't care what people might think of me.
I suggest to all those people who are running down e-cigs that they try one before sounding off about them. I bet that when cigarettes first appeared there were any number of similar people declaring that these toy 'cigarette' things were nothing like smoking a decent pipe or cigar, and that they'd never catch on, and if they did it would be the end of civilisation.
Some time ago I went onto that other website F2C where they have a guy on there marketting the e-cigs. I had not heard of them before but after reading some of his stuff on them I decided to give them a try. My family have always had a go at me about smoking, saying I should cut it down etc, so I bought some e-cigs.
I must say in all honesty that they taste as much like a real ciggy as smoking a kipper does. I don't know what's in them, but it's certainly not tobacco and it has this strange chemical, plasticy smell. But I was determined to keep it up to see if it would wean me off my daily dose of ciggies. I am sorry to say that far from weaning me off, it made me want to smoke the real thing more.
It all came to a head when I went out with my family for a meal and decided to have a smoke on my e-cig. Instead of the controversy that I had half expected, the whole place was in uproar within seconds, with nearlly all the restauarnt laughing at me.
Sorry boys, but I gave the e-cigs up that night and have gone back to the real thing, at least they don't make me caugh like the e-cigs did.
Tom, Rebus & Gregory et al, do seem to be very 'special' people, who are probably just bothered that they might run out of people to scrounge fags from. I do hope that 30 years of smoking never made me quite so retarded, but despite the likely ranting that will emerge from under their tin-foil hats, I'll throw in another irritatingly relevant response to the article.
I'm 5 months into vaping, using both e-cigs and a butane vapouriser (which also allows me to vape tobacco and cigar chunks). The FACT is, that for many smokers who've tried them, e-cigs are a much better way to go. The initial cost was £20 (less than I'd spend in a week on fags), and I use about £5 worth of juice a week. I love the fact that I can vape in pubs and at gigs (the main reason I go into it at all), and even if they do block that benefit somewhere down the line, I'll be sticking with vaping, I've got better things to spend my money on, and don't need the cough.
Ecigarettes have been reviewed for safety here.
"Findings. Ruyan® e-cigarette is designed to be a safe alternative to smoking. The various Test results confirm this is the case. It is very safe relative to cigarettes, and also safe in absolute terms on all measurements we have applied.
Using micro-electronics it vaporizes, separately for each puff, very small quantities of nicotine dissolved in propylene glycol, two small well-known molecules with excellent safety profiles, – into a fine aerosol. Each puff contains one third to one half the nicotine in a tobacco cigarette’s
puff. The cartridge liquid is tobacco-free and no combustion occurs.
Competency. The author has authored or co-authored over 30 research papers and reports in national and international scientific medical journals since 1995, on smoking,
and latterly on testing of cigarettes and cigarette substitutes."
http://www.healthnz.co.nz/RuyanCartridgeReport30-Oct-08.pdf
Dr) Murray Laugesen
Lyttelton, Christchurch, 8082, Ne
I love the way the people who keep trying to flog us their dodgy plastic fags, all keep using the same word, i.e. VAPING.
Who the hell ever heard of that one before these twits arrived on here?
ASH UK and ASH USA disagree of Ecigarettes. John Banzhaf has persuaded the state of New Jersey to ban E cigarettes in bars, while ASH UK endorse them.
It would not surprise me someone from ASH or Dept of Health planted this story at the BBC.
"GAINESVILLE, FL, October 19, 2009 /24-7PressRelease/ -- ASH Agrees That The E Cigarette Is Better Alternative To Tobacco
In an amazing document released by ASH UK, the anti-smoking group makes some surprising statements concerning the e-cigarette.
"While the ASH group in the United States and its leader, Prof. John Banzhaf III hold a large amount of contempt for e-cigarette products, the original chapter of ASH in the UK released a PDF file stating that the products could very well be a viable option for smokers who do not wish to quit or have not had success with cessation."
http://www.24-7pressrelease.com/press-release/ash-agrees-the-ecigarette-is-a-better-alternative-to-tobacco-120962.php
Can't decide whether I'm insulted or amused that I've been taken as a troll/ash poster, particularly as I'm sat here with a fag & a coffee reading this.
The question was about experiences, My partner & I have ecigs, we've used them, I was answering the question, my partner has trouble with his breathing so he wants to cut down & the ecigs have helped, Champix nearly drove him mad and clinics/nic-subs were less than useless.
Frankly, he was a pain in the arse when he hadnt had a ciggie all day so I love the ecigs, just because he doesn't get so ratty if he tries to cut down. For the record, personally I don't want to give up, I like my ciggies but there are situations where I can't smoke so they make a good substitute.
I've used one product out of a range of about 20 I've seen on the market, there is an even wider range of cartridges and I have no clue how many manufacturers but there are a fair few out there, you note I didn't mention which brand I used (deliberately) so how the hell am I promoting anything.
Like anything else I would guess there are differences between brands and everyone has different tastes, so I'm not surprised by comments from those who didn't like them, fair enough, at least they are giving their opinion based on personal experience.
My response to Gregory was my honest view of the matter, his attitude annoys me as his comments clearly indicate he has no personal experience.
I subscribe to this blog because I hate the attitude that groups like ASH take, I refuse to be told by anyone what I can or can't do with legal products, hence my puzzlement at being lectured on how I should think and behave on a blog about personal freedoms.
As to the vaping comment, like a few others on here (I suspect) I did a bit of research before I bought one and its the term used in the US where they are much more common, I heard about them from the blog I linked to earlier, which I originally heard about from either this blog or Devil's Kitchen (I forget which).
The only reason I know a bit about them is that I did a bit of reading up on the subject, I suggest some of you do the same.
Now will someone please tell me what makes certain fools think I'm a troll?
Dave, it is worth reading Judge Leon's interim order --> https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2009cv0771-54
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As a long term poster on this site, can I just say that I do not see any conflict between ecigs and real cigs. There is no need for people to fall out.
Let us use what we have all been trying to promote for the last several years ie our 'freedom to choose'.
I haven't yet tried these ecigs myself. I am thinking about buying one pack and giving them a go on the grounds that they could be useful in some circumstances - eg. especially in airports where you are a virtual prisoner for many hours.
If I do go ahead, it will not be because a person newly posting on here is recommended them, it will be because certain persons on other sites have suggested them.
Let's not fall out when we are all essentially on the same side.
Junican says: I haven't yet tried these ecigs myself. I am thinking about buying one pack and giving them a go on the grounds that they could be useful in some circumstances - eg. especially in airports where you are a virtual prisoner for many hours.
Why should you feel the need Junican, in airport or anywhere else, to lower yourself to the level of baby sucking on a dummy, which is a substute for their mother's breast?
A baby does not have an alternative way out, you do. You can act like a grown up and stop being a marketing man's dream.
Well said Junican. Cards on the table time. I have smoked since 1963, and hate that HMG has removed choice from us. The ban is iniquitous in the extreme, and I'm totally against it.
However, as a musician of sorts (at least, that's how I earn a crust - go figure) my work keeps me subjec to the ban virtually 100% of my waking hours. So, in order to get round it, in May of 2009, I bought an electronic cigarette. Quite honestly, had I not been around a power outlet all the time, it would have been useless. But, since then, I've gathered a selection of the things - and toys they are not - and now use them exclusively. Have I packed in smoking? Not in my head, no, but in terms that a lot of people would use, yes - that is to say I no longer light tobacco - but I'm getting better than 40mg of nicotine a day - that's around 40 fags' worth in most folks's language.
Would I fight for people's right to smoke? Yes, I would. Do I consider myself a smoker? Yes, I do.
I have one and quite honestly, it gets you through evenings where it is difficult to get outside to smoke the real thing. For example the Christmas Party in a hotel (I live in the Brighton area and as the big hotels are the ones that host these events for businesses, you can find outside is either a rather longwalk and/or in a side street with chilly coastal winds However, it is not the real thing but does relieve the craving for a time.
I recently went for a drink with my husband (who is a non smoker) to pub in the centre of Brighton and has the street as its only outside area and was a very popular pub, very regency. They have started selling e-cigs as a way to attract more customers. Yet people still went outside to smoke cigarettes. The bar staff use e-cigs though, I saw it with my own eyes and they were qite happy if I used mine (not the one they were selling) and showed me the demonstration model. It was white with a red light and they liked mine better which is black with a blue light
We also called in our very local pub and I asked the landlady (who is very anti-smoking)if could use my e-cig and she said yes, no problem. I was then told by an aquaintance at the bar "Why don't you get it free on the NHS" and held up a nicotene inhaler. I did not know what to say, other than I do not want give up smoking, I just want get through the times where it is impossible to smoke.
The e-cig is a bit like drinking low alcohol booze. It satisfies the craving for a while, but if you enjoy smoking tobacco or are heavy smoker, you want the real thing eventually.
I also think those of us who continue to smoke are rebels at heart, after the relentless propoganda put out by the mainstream media, for years, and we do not accept that the government is there to intrude on our right to make an informed choice on what we do and don't do. They are elected to serve us not to tell us what we can and can't do.
@ Soggy.
Do you really have to use terms like 'act like a grown up'? It isn't very grown up.
Can I just repeat - '...that they could be useful in certain circumstances'. A 'nicotine fix' might very well be rather pleasant an hour into a two hour wait in an airport, no matter how it is achieved. It would not surprise me if there were not other smokers feeling just a little jealous rather than laughing.
I don't understand your thinking, Soggy.
Firstly, e-cigs are in the firing line as much as normals, so stop all this ire ... it's silly.
However, it does make me chuckle when I read articles where attempts are made to ban e-cigs, considering I warned vapers a while ago not to pally up to ASH, as had been suggested.
Kat, you're not the same person as Kate on this forum who thought it a good marketing idea, are you?
Hindsight makes me a winner there. ;-)
Nope, never been on any vaping/smoking etc forums (didn't see the point), or talked to anyone who had used them before I bought mine. I got my info from the Tobacco Analysis site cited above then went hunting for other reports/stories in the press that actually cited reference papers.
I'm no expert researcher but I couldn't find anything suggesting a provable risk factor, so I decided to give it a go.
Funnily enough this is the first time I've posted anywhere about this and thats only because it is a rare subject I know a bit about (it doesn't happen very often).
We live in a fairly rural area and nobody I've met has ever heard of ecigs, let alone used one, in fact 6 months ago at a check up with a nurse in my GPs office, she asked about my smoking, I explained about the ecig & she looked it up on their network, she found nothing.
I wasn't going to come back to this page after this but I have to ask, why on earth would vapers want to have anything to do with ASH? To my understanding they are working at complete opposite ends of the spectrum.
Blow-up dolls are relatively 'safe', too (and they don't use lawyers).
Even so...........................
Hi,
Although it is illegal to market these devices here in the UK as a "stop smoking device", that is exactly what these e-cigs have made me do. Why would I smoke, when I can vape. After just 4 weeks of stepping from tobacco my breathing is greatly improved, my mood better and generally I feel healthier.
There have been independent tests done and TRACE elements of carcinogens have been found. No more than in Nicotine PATCHES. Compare that with a toxicology report on a single cigarette. If you want to conduct your own test, blow the smoke from a cigarette through a clean white tissue. The results will be clear. A big brown mess will appear. When I tried the same test with an e-cig, NOTHING.
I think these products are GREAT, and if I can chose as an adult to smoke - I sure should be able to chose to VAPE.
Check out my videos on YouTube - the results are clear.
Smoke2Vape - Andy
Andy.
'
I'm curious about your statement that it is illegal to market ecigs as 'stop smoking devices'. I would be interested to know what are your sources for making that statement. Is there an Act of Parliament or a Regulation which says so? Please specify how this 'illegality' came about.
I am serious in this request, honestly, because it really is very important that the actual legal facts are clear.
Andy Sutton wrote: There have been independent tests done and TRACE elements of carcinogens have been found. No more than in Nicotine PATCHES. Compare that with a toxicology report on a single cigarette. If you want to conduct your own test, blow the smoke from a cigarette through a clean white tissue. The results will be clear. A big brown mess will appear. When I tried the same test with an e-cig, NOTHING.
I conducted my own test, with an unfiltered Golden Virginia roll-up, blowing a mouthful of smoke through a kleenex, and yes, with just one mouthful there was a brown deposit.
But so what? The carcinogens in tobacco - e.g. benzapyrene - smoke also exist in minute (almost trace) amounts in tobacco smoke, and in more or less any smoke (e.g. engine exhausts, coal fires, wood fires, incense smoke). They also exist in plenty of other things than smoke. They're pretty ubiquitous. And what I'm looking at in that brown deposit is most likely most likely carbon or unburnt tobacco.
And if I did the same with a mouthful of gravy, I'd get an even thicker brown stain, analysis of which would also undoubtedly show the presence of all sorts of carcinogens and toxins, in far higher absolute amounts. But nobody ever looks at gravy. They only ever look at tobacco smoke.
I like my e-cig, but it's never going to be replace the real thing. Same with gravy.
I smoke roll-ups and have no intention of stopping. Not out of any militant smoker ideal, but just because I like it. I rarely visit pubs any more, especially at this time of year (I live close to the record low temperature holder for this winter) because I am not paying all that tax on booze and fags just to freeze my bits off outside.
I bought a Titan Electrofag because it was on sale and I can't resist a gadget on sale. It's not bad. The 'tobacco' flavour I didn't like but the 'virginia' and 'cigar' flavours are pretty good. It's not going to stop me smoking but if I'm in the pub now, I can puff away while holding a drink - something that's been impossible in Scotland for years. No drinks outside, no smoking inside so the combined pleasures are denied us.
Even so, Electrofag is never more than 50% of my smoking day and usually a lot less. It's not the same as the real thing. It's far, far better than the crap patches or the vile gum but it's not real smoking.
There are those who say they'd point and laugh if they saw me puffing at this thing. That's okay. I'm a smoker. Most of the time I have to put up with fake coughs and abuse when I'm smoking. Soon those ASH nazis will try to stop me smoking in my own house even though it's child-free.
Pointing and laughing would be a nice change from what we usually get.
Interesting discussion. Personally I think that e-cig equals capitualtion to the antis, but that is just my opinion. I won't get the chance to try one as they are already banned in Norway and the refils containing nicotine (or not) are banned in Denmark and Sweden. They are going to ban it in other countries too, they are already trying. To those who think they have found a solution to smoking bans I extend my heartfelt sympathy, you are not going to be allowed to carry on using it. I really think that defending smoking is the only way to deal with the situation. Half measures will just allow the anti-smoker contingent to roll over you. Here you have a group of people (are they people?) who have ejected us from every public place, destroyed our social lives, made our working day more stressful and all in the name of a smokefree world, such a risible phrase. Essentially they have won, but are they satisfied? Now, one would think, is the moment for them to take their bows and pats on the back and move on, but they won't. Because they have achieved nothing. There are no health benefits, no money has been saved and not one single life has been spared.
One day they will pay for the lies and be called to account for all the money they have stolen and all the lives they have damaged. The sooner the better. When it comes to the reckoning with these scum I hope I am around to join in, just pass me the rope.