Forest in the House
Friday, June 20, 2008 On July 1st, the first anniversary of the public smoking ban in England, Philip Davies MP is hosting a reception for Forest in the House of Commons. This is an invitation only event to which we are inviting MPs and a small representative group of people for whom the legislation has had a major social or economic impact. (The group includes include smokers, tolerant non-smokers, pub and bar owners, to name a few.)
If you have a message for your MP (or MPs generally) concerning the smoking ban, please comment here or email me direct. We are particularly keen to register with MPs the negative impact the ban is having on many people's lives. Describe how the ban has affected you personally.
Also, what amendments to the current legislation would you like to see introduced following the review of the Health Act in 2010? Third, has the ban influenced you to cut down or quit smoking? Fourth, what do you think of the government for introducing a comprehensive ban (ignoring its manifesto commitment to exclude private clubs and pubs that don't serve food) and will it influence your vote at the next election?
We need your name and (optionally) your age and occupation. The best comments will be added to the document we are sending to MPs to mark the launch of our Amend The Smoking Ban campaign.
Reader Comments (51)
Hi Simon,
I am 41 and a manager in a leading insolvency practice. I have seen at first hand the devastation caused by this ban due to the massive increase in clients who have earned their living in the hospitality business.
It is not just pub owners. Singers, DJs, comedians, karaoke acts etc are all struggling and their income is dropping dramatically. Bankrupcies and Individual Voluntary Arrangements ( a less severe form of insolvency) are growing because the pubs and clubs cannot afford to pay acts to play in front of smaller audiences. Many have said that they originally thought the ban would be a good idea, but now that they stand to lose everything, would be more than happy to perform in premises where smoking was allowed.
From a personal point of view, my wife and I do not go out anywhere near as much as we used to. We would have eaten out at least once a week but now cook a meal at home. I have a friends who work in restaurants who have told me that their profit per table is down even if the number of covers has remained the same. Previously, smokers would have stayed and had a brandy/liquer/coffee which is highly profitable, but now they just get up and leave to have a smoke outside.
Finally, I do not agree with pubs being allowed to have smoking areas if they do not serve food. Smokers eat too. Separate smoking areas in pubs and restaurants or allowing the owners to make their own choice is the only way forward.
Simon
I am 67 years old and have been allowed to smoke in a pub or club for nearly fifty years. Since retirement a pub and club have been the centre of my social life and now only go to a pub once aweek, just to stay in contact with friends. I feel that my social life has been taken away from me and feel that the smoking ban is discrimination against the elderly, becaused they have been stopped from doing something that they have legally been allowed to do for nearly all their lives.
I am not a literary genius and don't go on protest marches to make my point. I'm just a typical citizen who feels completely side-lined by this selfish ban that has caused so much ill feeling between people that once socialised happily together. All the hype and hysteria driven by the Goverment and anti-smoking activists has left millions of people like me struggling to continue to enjoy the pleasure of a chat, a drink and a cigarette with friends (of which are both smokers and non smokers.) We don't go out as a group for a drink to the local anymore and when we do go out very occasionally for dinner, we are back home by 9.30 to enjoy a relaxing chat together rather than splitting up for smokers to go outside for a cigarette - ludicrous! My friends were never bothered by my cigarettes before. This ban is a complete over-reaction and is clearly leading to further Goverment rules and interference into how we live our lives - alcohol restrictions clearly next on the agenda. I don't binge drink but I like several G&T's. Are you really entitled to curb my drinks because some mindless yobs can't hold their own. Tackle the problem not the symptoms. Then I guess you will want to monitor and control calorie intake for fatties? For Pity's sake BACK OFF. No way ever will I vote for Labour or Conservative - UKIP gets my vote as I want my liberty back and my freedom to choose how to live my life. As you experts know very well, my smoking a cigarette harms nobody around me. You are not telling people the truth in order to make more money for yourselves and much, much worse - your desire to CONTROL us!.
Simon,
I'm a 52 year old estate planning consultant. Although not a frequent pub goer, I used to enjoy eating out either as part of a day out or as an event in itself. Now I hardly socialise at all because any event is marred by having to leave to smoke and being forced to smoke 'on display', like some superannuated hooker. In my working day, in winter, between appointments, I'm denied the warmth of a building in which to have a break and now just sit in my car with a flask. I am one of the 'hard-working' law-abiding, so beloved of Gordon Brown when he's trying to sound voter-friendly, yet I feel like an outcast and enemy of 'decent society'.
My anger at the introduction of the ban has not abated (if anything, it has increased with the continuance of the war on smoking). I'm angry at the injustice of it, with its basis in sexed-up junk evidence. I'm angry at the disproportionality of it, with the elderly, who have been smoking most of their lives, kicked onto the streets and the terminally and mentally ill being denied the comfort of smoking. I'm angry at the spin, with the dangers of ETS being used as a ploy by a Government practically wetting its knickers in its excitement to be the first to reduce smoking rates in line with WHO targets and, so, determined not to introduce the civilised restrictions which appear to work well in other countries. I'm furious at a Government which peddles the vision of a diverse, all-inclusive society yet spends millions demonising a significant minority of decent people who pay handsomely to the coffers of this country to use a product that is every bit as legal as a cream bun.
I have no plans to stop smoking, I am prepared, however, to trade-off, politically, at the next election on this issue.
When the legislation comes up for review I'd like to see the introduction of the model that has been adopted in Spain with, if appropriate, the addition of the use of air technology. I would also like to see a stop to the hounding of smokers.
Sorry about the long post before I start – I could’ve written a lot more as well!
Hi. I’m Helen, 41 and I am an ICT Centre Manager working within adult education. I am married with 3 children and so have little time to socialise, but when I do, I go out on a Saturday night. This ban however, has turned my life upside down.
Going out is miserable now, with many people no longer bothering. You speak outside with the smokers and everybody is angry – very angry. You speak inside with the non-smokers, and they are angry – very angry. The ban has wreaked havoc amongst the hospitality industry, and the people I go out with know exactly who to blame. The finger of guilt is being pointed directly at this current government who are funding and encouraging the junk being spread about smokers and smoking. Passive smoking does not exist – end of. Only the antis believe it does and they have cherry-picked report after report and survey after survey and blasted them as headlines throughout the media. What about when they are wrong though – ie 17% decrease in heart attack admissions, Scotland, 40% decrease in heart attack admissions, England – a very muted apology is barely heard. So the ‘brainwashing’ continues.
I live in a labour heartland. I sent my MP a letter regarding the feelings of the labour supporters who have been affected by this ban(thousands of them). I shall email this to you separately as it is quite lengthy. I did receive a bog-standard reply, and they say they are listening to us!
The ban is obviously not working, although this government keep bleating on about its successes ( I personally see no successes, and neither has anyone I know – although we keep hearing about it in the media!) The review of the Act should take into consideration the civil liberties of all and should also consider how many deaths it has actually caused. Afterall, passive smoking has not caused any. There was choice in my borough before the ban. There were non-smoking pubs, non-smoking restaurants and non-smoking hotels. There were also venues that allowed smoking throughout, and other places that had segregated smoking areas. People could make their own informed choices of where to visit and everybody was catered for. Personally, I cannot see any reason why we can’t go back to this. As it stands at the moment, the sweeping tide of ‘hate crime’ being directed at an extremely large minority is very dangerous.
I have smoked since I was 19, around 30 cigarettes a day. In 2002, I did begin to cut down a bit and was quite pleased that I was down to about 12-15 cigarettes before the ban. The ban itself has had the opposite effect on me. I now smoke about 35 – 40 a day and it is definitely down to the smoking signs appearing everywhere. I now want to smoke in places where it would never have bothered me previously to have a cigarette.
I, and many I speak to, will never forgive the labour party for dishonouring its manifesto pledge and introducing a blanket ban. Personally, I will live the rest of my life campaigning now against this party within one of its heartlands, as I can never forgive the sheer arrogance of social engineering.
On a final note, there has been one positive aspect of the ban. Before it was introduced, I must admit that I was ‘brainwashed’ by the anti-smoking lobby and began to feel guilty about myself – was I a murderer even, as many often accuse me of being now? Luckily, I managed to research the agenda myself and soon realised that I was not the murderer, leper, piece of filth that the media paint me as. It is the pure filthy lucre that the anti-smoking agenda chases. In my opinion, I believe that the families who have lost loved ones as a direct result of this ban should be calling them the murderers.
Simon, I am one among many angry persons. I am married to a life long never smoker, (over 30 years) we have been out 3 times since the ban, used to be once or twice weekly to the club and pubs previous to the ban.
We gave up our club membership after 25 years of being loyal to them. They did not even try to fight it. We do go on more holidays’ short haul flights only. Only to Countries who are tolerant and are happy with "smokers money". I will not out of principle, spend a week holidaying in this "hypocritical, tax thieving Country, if it was full board free for a week. If they decide to make my place of work, smoke-free, I will not hesitate to give my notice. It has gone way beyond any health agenda, that was quite obvious a long while back "off site smoking" is about power and control. The media do not have a watchdog and are aloud to spout the biggest load of tosh ever. The headlines in one of the newspapers last week, the 40% heart attack reduction, has already been trashed by many people, one of whom was the antis once upon a time hero, Michael Siegel, link to it here, http://www.freedom2choose.info/news_viewer.php?id=723
Some of the most interesting comments in Dr. Siegels blog are from some called "Lightening" and very enlightening they are. The lies need to stop, and the media need to stop them. Some companies in the USA have banned not only the workers but also those who they live with, that is not healthy, not healthy at all. It is hubby’s birthday today and he does not even want to go to the soulless pub, which is a first. He was always happy with good ventilation, he has never been happy, me outside, him inside. This ban as you yourself know, is wrong, if it is based on lies and propaganda (which is a fact) those fighting this injustice, like Hamish Howitt, Tony Blows, Nick Hogan and Dave West, should be supported, not treated worse than sex offenders, who are a real threat to our kids. Somehow justice has become inverted!
Sorry about the rant LOL, in a nutshell, hardly go out, no, holidays in the Country, given up club membership. Would happily get out of this hell hole, this Country has become, (if it were not for my Grandkids)
mandyv freedom2choose.info
I may sound extreme, but I listen to many outside whilst I am smoking speaking about the Third Reich.
Hitler lost WW2, but we also lost many of our loved ones fighting against this enemy, to protect our freedoms.
We may have won this particular war, but it has now re-emerged to attempt to conquer the world again to create this 'supreme being'. Anti-smoking is now a global war. The WHO, and the anti-smoking lobbies and 'charities' are using the same techniques as Hitler - brainwashing, false propaganda, etc to persuade the millions to back their cause. They have even had the gaul to admit this! Unfortunately, they have become so sophisticated (ie, brainwashing governments first under a H&S remit), that it is difficult this time round for them to be defeated.
I do fear for where this will end. Misery for the millions. This, I believe, is the main negative impact of this ban.
We are at a tipping stage now and are being sold out to Third Reich principals and social engineering. The 'supreme being' is all that is required.
Have you ever wondered why the 'smokescreen' of diversity and the acceptance of individuality is being rammed constantly down our throats - to cover-up a more sinister programme of 'denormalisation' (and yes, this horrible word is now being bleated by our anti-smoking lobbies and the media).
The main negative impact of this ban to me, is that our country has now surrendered to the Third Reich
I work in a city centre late night off-licence. Our core business is selling fags to late night drinkers. Since then ban was imposed we have seen at worse a 40% decrease on sales compared to 12 months previous (this does not take into account the duty increases so add a couple more percent for actual decrease in sales), at best now that the warm nights are here we are 25% down. We have a contract renewal/rent increase due in November. It's not looking good.
I am a fifty seven year old musician, and a thoughtful smoker. Like many smokers, I have always respected the non smoker, and willingly accepted the many restrictions in public places, areas of work, and places of hospitality which already existed before the SBE. I was horrified when I saw the ugly signs which went up everywhere, so many of them in places where noone had smoked for years, even centuries!
I believed in Passive Smoking, (just like I had believed in WMD in Iraq). When the unbelievable severity of the SBE hit me, I began to look at the research, evidence and conclusions concerning SHS, and was shocked. I was not shocked by how real it was, but by how I had been fed so called proof which did not really exist. I felt humiliated, wrongly convicted, and very angry.
When John Reid was Health Minister, one of the things he said was that the proposed SBE was not about Passive Smoking, it was about recucing the number of adults who smoke to 21% by 2010. John Reid was not Health Minister for much longer, because he told the truth. It has been openly admited now that the aim is to denormalise smoking, and to stop children from being influenced to take it up.
I have no argument about not smoking in the presence of children, although it is both unrealistic and extreme for it to be against the law, and petty to airbrush photographs and edit films. This is why in the area of denormalistion and child influence, this SBE is ill conceived, not properly thought through, and not discussed openly.
The main area of controversy, social injustice and negative impact has been adult places of hospitality, in particular the pub and club. Where there could have been choice, and/or a seperate, well ventilated smoking area, we have adults having to go outside, in many cases in full view of children! MPs', the decision makers, contitutionally responsible for and democratically elected by the people, were handed the trump card of the anti smoking fanatics, 'passive smoking', an epidemiological fraud, a number game, and consequently passed an unjust and unnecessary law with far reaching cosequences, and I am not talking about saving lives!
How can human beings pass laws which make mentally and physically ill fellow human beings unable to have an area where they can enjoy possibly their only remaining pleasure in life. How can they support vinictave employers who deny their employees from having a break where they can have a smoke if they wish. How can they totally ban those who vote them into power from being able to have a relaxing smoke while they wait their flight at the airport.
Will I vote at the next General Election? In out 'first past the post' voting system, this is a two party political arena. If I vote, it will be for the party who promise to amend this draconian SBE, and New Labour would have to be very convincing, as they have already broken two manifesto committments.
Has the SBE affected my smoking habit? Well, it has certainly prevented me from smoking one or two cigarettes now and again because I am unable to, (at an airport for example). As for stopping smoking, if I personally feel I want to, I will, but like many other smokers, this ridiculous law has made me even more determined to continue something which I enjoy.
Although I'm raging over this Smoking Ban Experiment, I'm even more angry at WHO, ASH and the UN.
First take WHO, an organisation set up to help people in Africa, it's failed miserably, but to keep their funding rolling in they had to have a new cause, that being controlling smokers.
Second, ASH, a once tin-pot group, has ended up dictating government policy. Oh and let's not forget they're Big Pharma Groupies.
Third, that other failed organisation, the UN, one useless 'not fit for purpose' outfit that should've been wound up years ago, but again to keep the funding rolling in has now joined the global cause to demonise smokers.
The media also have a lot to answer for and should hang their heads in shame for promoting tthe antis propaganda, the same as they're doing now with alcohol. The week before last Sky News dedicted the whole day to this propaganda, they're getting more like the BBC every day.
Although I feel very sorry for the leisure industry, I'm also angry that, apart from an honourable few, the majority sided with the antis. Most didn't give a stuff about their smoking customers because they thought they'd have non-smokers flocking through their doors to boost their profits. Well now they've come to realise that they'd been well and truly lied to by the anti-brigade.
I used to go out every week, but not since this spiteful, malicious ban, apart from not giving the antis the satisfaction of seeing me go outside for a cigarette, and giving my money to a publican that didn't give a toss, I stay at home or go to friends.
One day ASH and their ilk will become over-confident, they're gradually revealing, by things I've read, that the real reason for this ban is personal dislike 'smoke is a nuisance.'
If anyone writes to Dawm Primalaro, Alan Johnson or Liam Donaldson, they should be sent for the attentinon of the Witch-finder General.
Simon,
i am currently practising as a mental health social worker. Before that i was a social scientist and professional musician. Although i have always been a considerate smoker, like others, before the ban i was very uninformed about the issues which this bad law has raised and made me aware of the politricks behind this rather than any real health agenda.
My social life is wrecked. I socialise with smokers and non smokers. All of whom now have little or no social life due to the ban.As a mental health practicioner, i have seen lots of negative aspects of the ban but no positives that i can truthfully think of. Several years ago mental health day services introduced a ban and took away smoking rooms. Many people with mental health issues are smokers. The services were a lifeline for some and the only chance of socialising and creating friendships and support networks. The use of services dropped dramatically. How is this caring for peeoples wellbeing. I am also aware of issues around liberty and freedom, as under the mental health act, we can take these from people who are deemed to be a danger to themselves or others. We do not make these decisions lightly, they are always a last resort. However, the government has taken millions of peoples freedom and liberty with this legislation and dictated how, when, where and with who citizens can socialise. Before the ban there was a growing number of non smoking venues and venues with well ventilated non smoking areas. This was positive for everyone and catered for everyones needs. Now, some of those non smoking venues are struggling to survive because the ban has destroyed demand for them. Similarly, for smokers and some non smokers the supply of venues has been destroyed. In some American states the ban has been reversed with proprieters being allowed to open either smoking or non smoking venues. This was an economic necessity because the ban destroyed the market. Whats the result? Bars and restaurants are thriving! This is basic economics.
The ban has hit the most vulnerable in society the hardest, Those in rural areas with few pubs losing what arena's they could socialise in. Landlocked locals, estate pubs, working mens clubs, bingo halls, shisha bars. All these venues supplied a crucial social and cultural function. They created and sustained communities where people from all backgrounds met and socialised. This is no longer the case. The ban is creating social exclusion, loneliness, unemployment etc etc. Many of these people are lifelong labour voters. Many had fought in wars for the freedom this country supposedly enjoys. They had worked in crucial industries and paid into the system over a lifetime. Like me, many of these voters will not forget what labour has forced on their private lives. They will never vote labour again.I would argue that many, like me, a lifelong socialist will never vote for any party which supports this despicable law, but will search for alternatives however much against their political instincts.
As a musician there are negative aspects. Many established venues no longer do live music because there are no punters there to suppotr it. Others, only book well known established bands that will draw a crowd meaning other bands cannot get bookings. I have played recently to a crowd of 300. However after the 2nd song around 100 were in the venue at any one time. The rest, smokers and non smokers were compelled to go outside to smoke and therefore socialise. I rarely go to pubs anymore.It is pointless as most of them are empty most of the time. I havent been for a meal for 2 years. I rarely go to see live music as i spend a lot of money for the ticket then miss some of the performance because i am outside. Everyone i know feels the same. Live music, or most of it is at its best in boozy, smoky enviroments, not stale, insipid, atmosphere free venues.
The sensible approach to amend this law would enact a significant change. There should be a mixture of smoking and non smoking pubs, clubs, restaurants and other venues. We are sensible free thinking adults. We should be able to make choices without government interference. I do not think this will happen because politicians stopped listening years ago hence the voter apathy in this country. However, the statistics are clear. With outright smoking bans, the incidence of smoking increases, both with individuals and populations. If the government was serious about reducing smoking, introducing a selective approach would really reduce the smoking population as it would allow people to consider the risks without feeling harassed, bullied and having their backs against wall, making them resent interference in the personal sphere and smoking in an attempt to exercise personal freedom against government coercion.
If New Labour really thinks that the Smoking Ban Experiment has been a success, then they are either deluded or ignoring the true impact of this legislation.
I personally have only ventured out to the pubs during the recent summer months, so you can at least sit out in a beer garden. Prior to that I had only been in a pub since the 1st July 2007 on three occasions. I had decided that if the government was going to treat me as an outcast, they were not going to get my taxation on alcohol or VAT on meals. My lone action has also be replicated by millions of others and hence the difficulties that the hospitality trade is under. It is not the credit crunch, it is largely down to the Smoking Ban Experiment.
Is it really right that old people should be forced out into the rain and inclement wintry weather or mentally-ill patients denied the one thing that acts as a coping strategy? If passive smoking is really that bad (and any intelligent person knows that the claims of ill-health are a fairy-tale), they should have the courage to ban all tobacco products - period. But no, this government is totally hypocritical, because of the loss of near 10 billion pounds of tax revenue.
But it goes beyond the Smoking Ban Experiment; it is about personal freedoms for the individual and accepting responsibility for their actions across all aspects of life. I feel that Britain has become a dark and sinsiter place - driven by state dictak and interference in our lives way beyond their remit. It has to stop now. If New Labour do not believe this, then the recent local elections, London mayoral contest and Nantwich and Crewe by-election should have registered and focussed their minds. I once supported New Labour, but I have seen the light and never again in my lifetime will they receive my vote.
I’ve been a Labour Party activist for more than 30 years. My party has lost the support of its core vote, as everyone knows, and the one issue which has caused more anger and feelings of betrayal amongst lifelong Labour voters than any other is the smoking ban - specifically, the breaking of the manifesto pledge to introduce a partial instead of total ban.
It’s not that people think this is the most important thing that’s happened - it’s simply that they see it as a symbol of the deeply anti-working-class nature of a government that was elected on working-class votes. The vicious war on smokers is seen as a war against the working class, being conducted by a party which has been infiltrated and taken over by middle-class people who are motivated - it seems - purely by inexplicable class hatred.
This isn't me saying this - it’s “the voters.” MPs are unaware of this because they no longer have any contact with ordinary voters and supporters, as they did 20 or 30 years ago. Former Labour voters I speak to raise a number of issues - some mention the war, others the lack of council housing, others privatisation in the NHS, others the broken promise on a Lisbon Treaty referendum - but the ONLY matter which EVERY single ex-Labour voter (smoker or non-smoker) raises is the total smoking ban. It has lost us the next election, and the one after that.
And yet, a simple amendment - to allow separate, unstaffed smoking rooms - could do away with most of this ill-feeling, almost overnight. Why are Labour MPs so determined to commit mass suicide?
I agree with all posters above. Only by amending the smoking ban can we begin to unravel the nightmare we are at present within.
I am aged 74 and a life-long healthy smoker who has rarely needed doctors and prescription drugs. There are millions like me.
Powerful pharmaceutical companies have carefully engineered the worldwide smoking ban over the last 40 years via their lies, false research and unproven statistics. Proof of this is the fact that their major prescription drugs have nicotine as their base. Nicotine has many internal healing benefits in addition to the mental well being it produces. Smokers are the enemy of the pharmaceutical companies. Smokers rarely need their drugs. Not one single name of one single individual who has died as a direct result of smoking can be produced. Scientific evidence of this is there, in abundance, via the Internet.
I believe that politicians, journalists and all that still have influence have a clear personal choice. Are they happy with the way things are going or do they think our world and our country should by now have become a better place within the civilisation process? Do they think it is a good thing that ordinary people no longer have personal choice in almost any aspect of their lives?
We are in the grip of global control via the EU and heads of all governments who have been “bought” into this system. Big Brother control forecast by George Orwell is right here and now.
The final nail in our coffin was the Smoking Ban. It has produced poverty stricken disenfranchised population. Venues such as pubs and clubs have to close through lack of business. The EU owns our postal system and has closed down the friendly meeting place of the post office. Gone are all freedom based meeting places where citizens could have discussion. Unemployment and poverty increase at an alarming rate.
Global control has set up a regime of fear and restriction of personal freedom. It now aims, as did the Nazi regime, at the children. They are being engineered to turn against their parents in favour of the state, just as neighbour has been turned against neighbour. All live in fear, especially in the inner cities where violence awaits them on the streets.
One simple question must be asked. Is Britain a better place since 75% of it came under EU/global control? Do we still have sufficient freedom to influence and reverse our dreadful situation? Yes – but only just. Thanks to the Irish, the Lisbon Treaty, which gave total control to the EU, is temporarily held in abeyance. We still have the right to vote and elect a government which does not support the poverty stricken regime we are in, and would stop sending billions of our tax payers money to Brussels – with no beneficial return.
It is not too late. But it almost is too late. So – those who still have a voice on our behalf please stand up and be counted.
Apologies to Simon for, as usual, spreading my wings too wide. I just hate the phrase, "If people choose to kill themselves by smoking, they should have Freedom of Choice."
I don't ever want anyone to approach this suject apologetically on my behalf. In knowledge, lies strength.
Sufficient for this thread, and this subject, to say that the preferences of [seemingly] 70% of the population should not overide the preferences of [seemingly] 30% of the population. Businesses should not be forced to close down and unemployment encouraged to increase. Proprietors should have freedom of choice governed by market forces whether they wish to run smoking or non-smoking establishments. Or a well planned, well ventilated, mixture of both.
Above all, people enclosed in non-smoking environments such as secure mental units, should definitely not have this beneficial aid removed from them and be forced on to harmful prescription drugs and their deadly side effects.
I am really pleased we have a broad concensus across the political spectrum. I come from the libertarian right of centre, that is a member of the Conservative Party for nearly 30 years. It is all to easy for me to say about Labour, "I told you so", and reneguing on their manifesto in 2005 is unforgiveable. However Cameron's Tories have been deeply disappointing. With the noble exception of Boris Johnson, my communications to the Tories have been standard letters and patronising referrals to SmokeFreeEngland websites to Central Office singing off the ASH hymn sheet, I in no mood for Tony Blair mark2. The best I can hope for is that Tories will not buy into more restrictions and feel labour want to harass and bully us more. However voting for the leeser of two evils is no democartic choice.
I wrote to Williams Hague, and sent him a link about Zambia & Nigeria where people are subject to imprisoned for 2 years for smoking in the street.I urged him to pass it on to those that take a keen interest in Africa. I also asked if this what they intended when they voted for this malicious Smoking Ban Experiment.
To say I got a standard reply was an understatement. So I sent him my standard reply which was.
That he should hang his head in shame, and damn him and the majority of politicans.
Needless to say he didn't answer
Simon,
Where to start? I feel devalued, discriminated against, depressed, angry and rejected from society because I smoke. This ban is extreme cruelty, for patients in hospitals to airline travellers life is barbaric. I no longer have much of a social life as going out is not much of a pleasure. I was a civilised smoker, I understood I was in a minority and I understood not smoking in many public areas. I don’t understand being made to stand on the street in the cold and often rain – usually without my drink. If I treated any of my animals as badly as this government treats me I would be considered a very cruel individual. I partake of a legal and heavily taxed habit, I work, pay tax, feel I am a useful member of society yet I am treated as an pariah.
I still feel bewildered it is considered acceptable to treat a section of society in such a callous fashion.
Describe how the ban has affected you personally.
For years I used to frequent my local pub every afternoon, for a quiet pint, sitting smoking roll-ups, and gazing meditatively into space, occasionally engaging in conversation with anyone who cared to talk. It was a little daily ritual, a tranquil refuge in an otherwise busy day. It was a way of keeping in touch with village news and gossip. I was well known, and cheerily greeted by name.
All that ended with the smoking ban. My little daily ritual ceased. I could no more go to the pub and sit drinking without a cigarette than I could have sat in it smoking a cigarette without a pint. And getting up every so often and going outside meant breaking the serene spell. And anyway I now felt that smokers like me were unwelcome. The No Smoking signs plastered everywhere may as well have said No Smokers. I lingered on outside in the pub’s large garden through the autumn, until it got too cold, when I ceased to go at all.
And through it all I felt a terrible rage that this was being done to me, and to millions of smokers all around the country. I think it’s utterly shameful that there are old men, many of whom fought for freedom against the Nazis (who were virulent anti-smokers), who have been shown the door in the twilight of their lives. I used not to hate this government, but I hate them with a vengeance now. And now I hate the illiberal Lib-Dems for whom I voted for over 25 years.
what amendments to the current legislation would you like to see?
At minimum a relaxation to allow small pubs. And I don't want to wait until 2010..
Has the ban influenced you to cut down or quit smoking?
I smoke more now. I have absolutely no intention whatsoever of giving up smoking.
what do you think of the government for introducing a comprehensive ban and will it influence your vote at the next election?
I think they're a bunch of Nazis. Real ones. And they should be treated as Nazis. I'll never vote Labour or Lib Dem in my life. And if the Tories don't come out against this ban, I won't vote for them either.
(P.S. I wrote the first three paragraphs of the above on Boris Johnson's forum about a month back in response to a similar question.)
If Simon Clark wants name, age, etc, he can email me to ask for it.
Dear Simon,
I am delighted to find this website and so many people who share the same views. I am a 52 year old producer/director in Texas who has been a life long pipe and cigar smoker. I and many of my friends here have been crushed by this ban in the UK. I had so looked forward to bringing my wife and daughter to Britain for holidays and to further our ten year olds' (homeschool) education. Now, with the smoking ban, we have had to cancel our travel plans for the foreseeable future. Same goes for most of the continent!
I cannot imagine myself trying to have a pleasant time in any of your beautiful pubs and historic restaurants and NOT being able to enjoy tobacco with a pint or a single malt. This is all very depressing. As a filmmaker, one of the things I've always loved about the old British films, like Hitchcocks' 'The 39 Steps' (1936 with Robert Donat), are the scenes of happy men and women enjoying themselves at the music halls, pubs, theaters, all having a drink, laughing and singing . . . and smoking. Once so commonplace, and now, all but extinct, forbidden. It is indeed a supreme insult and cruelty to those who went through Dieppe, Bataan and even embattled London (!), to have so much simple freedom taken away.
Already here at home we smokers, especially CIGAR AND PIPE SMOKERS, are made unwelcome and out-lawed. We all know the second hand smoke talk is just a cowardly ruse for 'we don't like the smell'. Years of anti-smoking propaganda has not only made second class citizens of us, but ruined the pipe trade and the hand-made craftsmanship that goes into them. The cigar, which was once ubiquitous to the American male, is now even more rare and as a result MUCH more expensive- making it even more un-popular, even amoung smokers. A circular, downward spiral. I want to see us enjoying tobacco again everywhere and anywhere you please, with courtesy and etiquette being our guide. The retailer should be able to make a living through volume instead of exclusivity and a small market. It may be worse in the UK where cigars, for instance, were always a very exclusive thing. Today only Cuban brands are sold in the exclusive shops in London, costing $40 or more each! The common man does not indulge as he might, therefore.
I mention Cigar and Pipe smoking so much because they are not inhaled directly into the lungs; did you know that even cigarettes were never intended to be inhaled, just enjoyed as a 'mini' cigar? That's why they are called, in French, 'cigar-ettes'. It all started in the Crimean War in the 1850's when the allies couldn't get regular cigars and pipe tobacco, so makers began grinding up the inferior, cheaper leavings from the cutting rooms and rolling it in paper for the 'mini-cigar'. The new product was brought home and later the lads began daring one another to 'draw it in laddy, draw it in!", since you actually could do that because cigarette smoke is so much lighter than that of a real cigar! That is when the nicotine craving began and complaints about the craving for it. This helped to bring on the anti-smoking campaign with its TV commercials of the 1960's. If the makers had promoted tastier cigarettes and just puffing on them, not inhaling them, there would be virtually NO health issue at all. The tobacco companies should begin such a campaign today. Maybe Britain will lead the way!
I encourage people, and children especially, to be staunch. Through the years we have all gradually given in to the whining and demanding of the left on every issue under the sun. Now 'no smokers' laws here and abroad keep us - and our money- at home. Very little eating out, no lingering over a high profit margin drink! These laws and others like them are creating us over into a State within the State. A Clockwork Orange?
I warn you: the next step is out-lawing all tobacco products and ultimately plowing the fields under. I hope you can stop it in England, cradle of our one-time American freedoms! If you can defeat this at your national level it would set a precedent for over-turning an unjust law which would help us here. We will have to do it at every level of government across this huge country! The word must be published again and again that second had smoke is a LIE.
A closing anecdote for you: Just this week some of my historical re-enacting friends who portray the Kings Own Scottish Borderers (KOSB) during the Burma campaign in the 1939 war were talking about getting together, in uniform for a period dinner and drinks, out. But wait, I had to remind them - we won't be welcome anywhere due to No Smoking laws! How can Living Historians portray and memorialize our ancestors from WW2 without smoking? It's like a cavalier without his rapier, Mr. Holmes without his pipe.
We decided to hold future meetings at my home!
We need to fight back with a worldwide pro-tobacco campaign! (Publish photos of Prince Charles and other important people with a cigar or pipe, perhaps? Remember all those pictures of King Edward VIII, so often with a cigarette, seen in magazines and papers? Not to mention Mr. Churchill!)
The best defense is offense. Smoking really should be allowed anywhere in which there is no danger of an explosion or fire.
All the best,
Randel Smith
21 June '08
16430 Oxnard Lane
Friendswood, Texas 77546
(next to NASA just south of Houston)
permission granted to display and publish this as you wish.
Well said all above and a good article from Randel.
What I don't understand smokers are treated like social outcasts and yet the politicians have the cheek to ask for our vote. No way Hos'e!
And yes, what a despicable way to treat people in a so called civilised society Ha.
Peter James age 51 Occupation: practicing accountant.
Hi Simon
As a mental health sufferer this ban has been devastating. Once the decision had been made for the total ban, a year before its inception, it had a major impact on me and was the underlying cause of my worst ever bout of depression, anxiety and panic attacks, bordering in fact on a breakdown. It left me agrophobic, which meant I could not go to work, I was totally dependent on my husband and could only leave the house with him.
After a couple of attempted suicides during this time a lot of NHS resources were finally, along with voluntary resources from MIND, put in place and now, 2 years on I am still on medication, still need counselling but cannot afford it or the time off work necessary, as there are no services available outside of normal working hours to help those of us who are struggling to stay in work.
One of the most important things for people like me is getting out and not stagnating at home, however, with this vicious ban there is nowhere for us to go out to and relax, ergo, we don't go! By not going out we are not meeting new people, who possibly have the same or similar problems and with whom discussion can be very beneficial to both sides. Effectively we feel isolated, have an increased feeling of unworthiness, and an even blacker outlook on the future.
Cigarettes have been my lifeline for nearly 40 years and if anything I smoke more now than I did prior to the ban, however I am determined not line this governments pockets so buy my cigarettes abroad, where there is a more tolerant attitude to smokers and we are still treated as human beings.
As things stand just now there is no incentive for me to vote for any of the 3 major parties and whenever I can I urge others not to vote for them either. They have all become, in my mind, totally complacent and have all forgotten that they are in fact our servants NOT our masters! This stretches down to local government too. I make a point of smoking in any open space that has a notice stating that smoking is prohibited because by smoking there I am not imposing financial penalties on owners/managers of enclosed premises. I have grudgingly accepted, for now, that I cannot smoke inside because of penalties to others, but am damned if I will be stopped from smoking in the open!
At 51 my mental health has suffered greatly and this has affected my family too. My smoking, as has been proven by far better science than the junk served up by ASH and WHO and the like, harms no-one on a long term basis. Before asthmatics, etc, write in, I know many asthmatics who actually smoke to help relieve an attack. There are those for whom smoking can also bring on an attack, but these are far fewer than are being affected by the smoking ban and non smoking venues have been increasing year on year for the last decade or so anyway. I also have a friend who is epileptic, but she cannot go out because perfume and perfumed deodorants cause her to have a fit! It is not possible to please everyone all of the time and the majority of smokers do not wish to cause discomfort to non smokers, however we do feel that designated smoking and non smoking venues, including restaurants, should be allowed and where business are prepared or able to install hi tech filtration systems, this too should be an option as this will provide cleaner air for everyone, cleaner than what is currently available just from the absence of smokers! Everyone seems to forget, as the majority of people use cars and other vehicles, that the fumes from vehicles are far more toxic and are pumped out in far greater volumes than any number of smokers can manage! As for the gullability of so called intelligent people falling for SHS causing death from half an hour's exposure, or whatever tripe was being bandied about by the antis, it is not in the least bit logical that this can happen if smokers, who are getting it first hand as well as second hand are not falling down dead left, right and centre!
Currently I am just about on an even keel, although nowhere near as well as I was before this vicious and devastating ban. It only takes the slightest thing however, to plunge me back into the blackness again. Trying to keep up the front (the mask) when out and at work is so devastatingly tiring that it drains all other resources and leaves people like me very vulnerable. There is also the added fear that should we be hospitalised we will not be allowed to smoke and that is just an added pressure.
Sorry this has been so long, but once started it was hard to find a good place to stop!
Good luck with your attempt at trying to get some MP's to see sense - I am sure you will need it.
Regards
Lyn Ladds
Pershore
Worcestershire
Simon,
The heavy handed smoking ban introduced last year merely confirms a view I have held for some time. We have become a miserabilist society with a vindictive and puritanical streak. Witness how the all embracing legislation has persecuted the elderly in care homes and the mentally ill in hospitals. Those who invoked this law, presumably on our behalf, may not care that they have destroyed many local meeting places but they should hang their heads in shame at forcing wheelchaired octogenarions and others to leave their home or club for a gentle puff of nicotine.
The problem is that smoking is one of the few pleasures in life which is perceived, rightly or wrongly, as having no definable benefit. It was an easy target for a parliament gorging on ever encroaching regulatory rules and, deaf and blind to commonsense, they over reacted.
And it was all so unnecessary. Smoking was gradually becoming a more and more marginalised activity as each year went by. It did not need the jackboot of over egged regulations. Left to itself society would have found a civilised balance. Indeed all the evidence of recent years in hotels, restuarants and many meeting and employment places suggests it was doing just that. A small, minor, regulatory tweak in these areas would have been acceptable and defensible.
But instead we have the ludicrous scenarios of 'no smoking' signs in churches, fines for lighting up in a doorway, cancellation of pipe smoking competitions, and the gradual proliferation of illegal 'smokeasies'. And all taking place in what used to be called a free and tolerant society.
I have never yet heard any coherent or logical argument as to why it is wrong for me to light up in a self contained smoking room in a public house or hotel and I doubt if I ever will. In enacting legislation which empowered people to deny me this pleasure our parliamentary representatives permanently incurred my contempt and the Labour Party irretrievably lost my vote.
I am 63 and law-abiding. Neither will last for much longer.
Poor Lyn, you have spoken of this before. Try to get right off prescription drugs, they will have had side effects. Working in a smokeless oxygen-less environment will add to your woes, as does the chemicals in air fresheners, etc.
How did that HGV driving test go?
Do you have a garden? Working outside to create a beautiful garden, particularly growing your own vegetables, has a marvellous effect. There is a natural element in soil itself which is just as good for the system as nicotine.
Our thoughts are with you. You may feel alone, but you are not alone.
Fight the good fight!
Hi Margot
Thank you for your concern.
I really don't feel poor (except financially!), but I am bloody furious at how these dictatorial idiots who do not seem to be on the same planet as real people can affect our lives and health so greatly without any notion or care of what problems they are causing - often very adverse problems that to a degree backfire on them in their Palace of Westminster, although they would never admit that any of their decisions were bad ones! This is why I felt I had to respond in this way to Simon's invitation, as I am sure it has not crossed the minds of the powers that be that this vicious law has had a very detremental effect on people such as myself and many others with similar problems.
With regards to my HGV test, I have just failed test number 2 and am trying for number 3 this Saturday! Hence being totally financially poor!
The garden is my husband's domain and always has been. I help occasionally with some weeding, but still don't know the difference between most weeds and plants!
Thanks too for your support - there are times when, feeling depressed, it seems that the whole world is against us and that really is a struggle. I will carry on fighting as much as I can.
It is so sad, reading these indictments of our times, and how a whole section of our society have been marginalised and victimised by a Government whose manifesto set out very clearly, that they planned to introduce a "partial" smoking ban in the UK.
Even a partial smoking ban would have proved controversial, as there was never any consultation process with people in the various industries that would be effected by the ban, and certainly no consultation with the general public.
The ban was brought in by an increasingly dictatorial Government, who constantly tell us that they know what is best for us. They employ teams of "experts", to show us positive proof of that what they are saying must be true.
Their "experts" gave us positive proof of the weapons of mass destruction, which led to the war in Iraq, they gave us even more proof about Global Warming, and told us that our only salvation would be to pay more taxes to the Government (what a brilliant idea). We learned also, that if we didn't dispose of our rubbish correctly, in at least six, different coloured bins, and pay local councils separate charges for doing this, that this would also have a detrimental effect on our environment. Our Government "experts" also tell us that if we use too much fuel, the ice caps will melt, and polar bears will have nowhere left to live, and we all know what lovely, white, soft, fluffy creatures they are don't we. I wonder what would have been said if it were brown rats that were supposedly, threatened with extinction?
But, if our un-elected Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, really does believe in these experts whom he employs, then why on earth does he now go running to the Arab Sheikhs, asking them to boost oil production, when his "experts" have already told us how bad it is for us all?
Could it be that Mr Brown doesn't really believe his "experts" at all, or does he believe, maybe just one of them, when he feels like it? I wonder which "expert" he believes regarding the smoking ban, could it be the "expert" who first told the Government that smoking wasn't good for people, and they by bringing in a partial ban, it would help many people to stop smoking, or could it be the latter "expert" who then said, that smoking should be banned in all indoor public places, because second hand smoke could kill people?
I also wonder, if this latter "expert" on smoking, could possibly be, the same "expert", under a different name, who told us all about the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? They do sound very similar don't they?
They say there are "lies, damn lies - and statistics", I think the first three words of this phrase, sum up perfectly, the way this Government brought in the smoking ban, and indeed any other law or legislation they feel like introducing.
The smoking ban has meant I can go into pubs and many other places I could not go to before. I am extremely smoke-sensitive as a result of my mother chain-smoking around me all through my childhood. I had a lot of chest infections and illnesses in childhood as a result of passive smoking which left my lungs and throat very sensitive to smoke in particular (not just cigarettes but bonfires and even incense smoke). I have been mostly healthy as an adult so long as I avoided smoke. Long live the smoking ban
I do feel very sorry for you Lesley. Have you sought medical attention for your problems?
From what you say, it seems to be any type of smoke that causes you these problems? What about the smoke from vehicle exhausts? I would imagine from what you say, that this would also effect you very much and would mean that you also have great difficulty going out anywhere?
Now that more pubs are going into the restaurant side of the business more, and many have open plan kitchens where you can actually see and smell the food being cooked, how does this effect you? It must make it impossible for you to go into most pubs or restaurants?
You seem to cast all the blame of your ailments onto your mother, and now onto people who smoke, or cook, or burn incense, or celebrate by lighting bonfires, or maybe even go out in their cars?
Has it not occurred to you, that you have something seriously wrong with you, and the smoking ban is not going to help you at all? It might take away a little of your anger for a very short while, but at the end of the day, I think you need to adjust your anger to the right people or person, and that isn't your mother or smokers in general, it is yourself.
I am a 37 year old Engineering consultant. Prior to the ban I was a regular pub goer and member of a local pub pool team. All of that has ended. I now visit the pub around once or twice a month a best - and when we do, it's to the cheapest one around (Whetherspoons).
Prior to the ban I only ever drank alcohol in the pub, now we buy in a couple of boxes every time we visit the supermarket and have even invested in a drinks cooler. With the summer months upon us we'll be hosting a number of barbecues. Who needs the pub?
If we're talking about amendments then at the most basic level the across-the-board-50% rule should be scrapped. The law was brought in to protect employees, and I'm unaware of anyone who works in a smoking shelter so why does the rule apply.
Obviously I would go A LOT further, but I suggest that amendment as I believe it is a battle that can be won short term.
Hi Simon,
I am a 51 year old university lecturer in probability and statistics. Epidemiology and medical statistics are not my specialisms, but through my work I have access to all the relevant journals and can understand the academic papers.
When the smoking ban law was passed and I began to research the subject, I was amazed that what is little more than propaganda and often downright fraud and deception, is regarded as research and scholar activity by the press and the wider public. This is not the place to discuss the passive smoking issue; but I will just say that I would not be worried were my nieces, aged 14 and 16, to work in a pub or cafe with a well-ventilated smoking area.
I don't go out now. I actually miss thinking about work in Caffe Nero more than drinking in pubs. The worst aspect of this ban was extending it to mental health facilities. If you read ASH's submission on the Charity Commission's web site, they expect it soon to be extended to prisons.
What should be done? I presume the total ban came about because those powerful within the Leisure Industry thought a partial ban was not in their interests and politicians, drawn more from the Arts and Humanities than the Sciences (with the honourable exception of the House of Lords), were bamboozled by anti-smoking propaganda. However, it is really the non-smoking voters who count. They, generally of the stingy eyes and smelly pullover persuasion, rather than health neurotics, are concerned that a change in the law will mean the majority of pubs allow smoking, and that they will have fewer choices. The more extreme have openly gloated about the ban and so will lose face were it to be amended. For both of these reasons, we smokers must be perceived to have paid a big penalty for indoor facilities, whether or not this has a basis in science.
My suggestion is that:
(i) in any postcode a fixed proportion of pubs/cafes should be granted smoking licences;
(ii) smoking rooms should be separated from the bar or counter and there should be stringent ventilation regulations;
(iii) businesses should have to bid for licences on a £ per sq metre, say 5 year, basis; the proceeds going either to local authorities or to subsidise the business rates of non-smoking venues.
I think (iii) is very important. Prices in smoking venues will be higher, as smokers are prepared to pay a smoking premium; non-smokers will accept this, together with a subsidy to their Council tax or leisure activities, as compensation for "losing"; and, most importantly, due to the bidding process, non-smoking and smoking businesses will be equally profitable.
Of course the anti-smoking industry will go to any lengths to resist such a change. The American ASH advice to smoking ban activists is never to settle for any stable equilibrium where everybody is happy, as further progress would then be very difficult. Paradoxically, it was that such a state had almost been reached in the UK which made the early instigation of a total ban imperative. The only cafe chain allowing smoking was Caffe Nero and more and more pubs were going non-smoking. It was only the non-smokers lack of desire for smoke-free venues which was preventing more non-smoking pubs opening. It really does annoy me when I hear them say they can now enjoy a smoke free drink. It was always up to them. Why do they think Starbucks went non-smoking years ago?
I have recently retired and was looking forward to the days when I could comfortably relax at a good hotel/restaurant/bar and not have to rush through in the hour allotted to me. How very sad that after years of enjoying the "habit" I now find myself a subject of ridicule when I step outside for a post-prandial cigarette which so inflames me that I am considering equally inconsiderate ripostes about their drinking, weight, facelifts - whatever seems appropriate. Why should I, an OAP have to account to anyone for my one "naughty" pleasure in life. Has everyone gone mad in this country? Are we all to be governed "for our own good" from now on. Please, oh please, don't tell me we are all going like sheep to the slaughter without a whimper. Dustbins, ID cards, travelling alone in a commuter belt, what next?
I am 40 years old and run a transport business employing 60+ people.
Working as I do in the transport industry, most of my day to day dealings are with modestly-paid hard-working people, a great many of whom smoke. I also have a 20 year association with the sport of darts which I have administered at County level, also writing for darts magazines, and I'd say that about 80% of those that play or are fans of the game are from a working class background. The attitude regarding the smoking ban from all of those above is overwhelmingly negative.
I remember in 2005 predicting to a group of darts players that a ban in pubs and clubs would be in force "by next year". I was of course wrong about the timing but accurate about the fact that it would happen. My prediction was pooh-poohed at the time as it was a ludicrous idea ... and still is. However, it has been akin to watching a mad axe-wielding maniac (the anti-smoking lobby) running towards you from afar, with a battalion of artillery (MPs) between them and you, but watching as the protectors just step out of the way and allow this thug to stroll unhindered in your direction and wreck your life!
No voter in this country, apart from the MPs themselves, voted for a blanket ban on smoking in pubs and clubs, and as such it is the most anti-democratic and disturbing legislation ever to be inflicted on our country since the last war.
I used to enjoy going to pubs and was a regular bi-weekly visitor. I don't bother anymore as it just isn't relaxing anymore, in fact, it is quite the opposite. Smokers are in general quite happy to step outside in any number of environments in everyday life, but once MPs legislate what the public can do in their own leisure time, without any form of choice for adults in an adult environment, they are on a slippery slope to dictatorship.
The vast majority of 'blue collar' people I meet are extremely unhappy about the smoking ban and feel it is quite ridiculous. They are not the types to make a big fuss, most aren't online to be able to comment in places like this, nor would they feel the confidence to do so even if they were able to find it. But they are overwhelmingly anti-Labour now whatever their previous political persuasion. Just because the Labour focus groups haven't focussed on them doesn't mean that they don't exist and I can assure you that they cast their votes against Labour at the last Mayoral election in their hundreds as a result of the smoking ban. Unless something is done about this situation, I seriously can't see Labour ever forming a Government again, whether the economy is under duress as it is now or not. Smokers are reminded how much Labour hate them EVERY time they are trying to relax in the pub and are forced out into the cold to smoke. As if that isn't enough, Labour are now proposing further measure after further measure to make these people think that they are somehow sub-human. All that is doing is making them more angry and more likely to never cast their vote for Labour in the future ... Brown and his party may as well take the ballot papers out of the box and throw them down the drain themselves every time Primarolo or one of the other Nanny front Bench get on their high horse and spout the new line in smoker discrimination.
They have a chance if they go for an amendment but since they have set the review for 3 years instead of the normal 1 (presumably as they know it's contentious and hope the fuss will have died down by then) there is little chance of that. Of course, the simple answer that would make EVERYONE happy would be a system of smoking and non-smoking pubs, with members only clubs allowed to choose their own approach via a vote of the members, but Labour won't do that, their turkeys will keep voting for Christmas until the time when working-class smokers and their tolerant non-smoker friends vote them out of office with no chance of ever returning in a lifetime.
I'd say that Labour could be relegated to a third place party but the Liberal (?!?!?) Democrats voted to a man FOR the illiberal smoking ban so they aren't going anywhere.
Have I cut down on smoking? Not on your nellie! My business was formed in the face of people saying it couldn't be done and all the while someone is telling me to stop smoking, I'm afraid my instant reaction is always going to be to resist. If the advice is given and I am allowed to choose for myself then maybe, but no way will I give in to intimidation by this or any Government (my alcohol intake has increased since those ludicrous ads on units appeared on the TV too ... please stop this nonsense).
I was a member of the Labour party until 2005 as I mostly agreed with their policies, but I will NEVER vote for them again as they can't be trusted. How can someone vote for a party that produces a manifesto and then completely discards it once they have your vote? I was badly affected by negative equity during the mess that was the Thatcher/Major government but that was small fry compared to this load of jokers who are implementing policy to specifically attack my very lifestyle! I could vote for Lib Dem I suppose, and we do have a very good MP on local matters, but he voted for a blanket ban so he is taken in by the lies and junk science. There's no way I'm voting for someone that naive to make educated decisions on behalf of the country, so sorry Paul Burstow.
The best thing about the smoking ban is that it has made fools out of the vast majority of our politicians. They have fallen for the biggest con-trick in the history of British politics and have obviously never read The Emperor's New Clothes.
I have always espoused that it is vital to cast a vote so my conscience forces me to give my X to one of these insular, gullible and laughable fools. In my constituency it's a straight fight between Conservative and Lib Dem. Seeing as the Tories voted 2:1 against a blanket ban, they are marginally more accommodating about choice and property rights inherent in this ban than the other two and are probably more likely to vote with wisdom on future issues so I suppose it'll have to be them. ANYTHING but Labour really.
What a sad country we now live in thanks to the policies of the past few years. Me? I'm just marking time till I can sell my company & retire to somewhere sane like Spain. If all goes well, I'll be out of here in the next 5 years and this will all just be a very bad dream.
1/ I'm 43 and perform in a semi-pro pub-duo, singing and playing Irish standards etc. As such, I am someone being "protected" by the Smoking Ban.
Well, it's certainly protecting me against earning a living from music... and has utterly RUINED the pub-going experience; not just in the winter but, for landlocked city pubs, at any time. No smoking inside, no drinking outside. Result: near-empty atmosphere-free pubs, awaiting the day when they're converted into wine-bars or knocked down to make room for housing. One pub-manager tells me that, since last July, month for month takings are down 22% and it's only music-nights that attract any custom whatsoever. Landlocked pubs without ents-licenses are really struggling. The Oxford area is now littered with boarded-up pubs sporting tattered "Business Opportunity" posters.
Personally, I resent the erosion of choice in favour of bowing to the shrill and unreasoning demands of the anti-smoking lobby. I feel pretty unwelcome in any public space, so I go out much less. I don't travel by train any more. Booking hotel-rooms has become fraught, as I refuse to stay anywhere that won't accomodate my preference.
2/ Amendments: Well, a start would be for Labour to honour their 2005 manifesto-commitment to a partial-ban, but considering that they'll be decisively booted out of office in 2010, I would favour amending the legislation to that which featured in the 2005 Conservative manifesto: freedom of choice, with clear signage. Allowing business-owners to run their businesses according to their and their clientele's interests and not those of the government. I would also like to see an end to the unnecessary discrimination against smokers who want to use public transport. There should be a well-ventilated area available on all long-distance trains.
3/ If anything, I'm smoking more now. No intention at all of giving up my pleasure to suit the government's fascistic agenda.
4/ Not only was I a lifelong Labour voter until 2001, I am also a former party-member. I did not join the Labour Party to bash the working-class, nor to instruct them on how to "improve" themselves. I voted Tory for the first time in 2005 and have satisfied myself that my own MP does not support the smoker-ban nor any of the other curtailments of our historic freedoms as perpetrated by venal, sociopathic, power-drunk Nu-Labor. I despise my former party and all they appear to stand for.
Hi Simon, I am a housewife, I used to go into town for a coffee with friends once a week I no longer do that since the ban was introduced. I used to play bingo once a week but i refuse to have to go outside to have a cigarette so i dont go anymore.I booked a holiday to california last year and then found out that i could not smoke (even in the street ) so i cancelled it. I will never go to America for a holiday as long as this ban is in place. So they have lost my custom. I will only holiday in a place like majorca that allows me to have a choice. I have always voted labour but i will never vote labour again in my life time. I would emigrate from this miserable hell hole we call great britain if i could. We are being watched over all the time. The smoking ban has destroyed buisnesses people's lives and people's social lives. Before this ban was introduced people always knew one could not smoke in a church a cinema or a doctors surgery ect so why the need for an absolute ban.???? This government has done nothing but put lies out to the public about second hand smoke and divided the community. The smoking ban is not the only thing this government has in mind to wreck they want to control us, well i am not going to be controlled I would rather turn to crime if i am continually being treated like a convict I may as well become one. My father fought in the second world war to keep our freedom and this government has come along and destroyed all our freedoms.This government should also be aware that the more restrictions they put on people then more crime will be committed.These last two years i have heard so many X labour supporters comment on the smoking ban and they have said they will never vote labour again. Then Labour wondered why they lost so many votes at the last local elections ignoring the fact that the smoking ban was as much to blame as the 10p tax but they never had the nerve to admit it. I would put money on it that this government has restricted the media from reporting on how unpopular this ban has been another case for propaganda.
I would like to say how can Brown oppose Magarbee when his government is no better by wanting to control us but with different tactics. This is not a free country anymore.
We are holding the olympics very soon and I hope every person from abroad who happens to smoke boycotts it because of the smoking ban. I dont travel myself now to any country that has a smoking ban and I hope this will prove that smoking bans dont work.
Some on here are stating that Spain is the only country that is smoker friendly. Not for long I fear, ASH and their ilk are going all out for the Spanish to implement a blanket ban like there is here.
As for California, they've definitely lost the plot, they have even legislated that those found smoking in municiplal housing can be evicted.
All these so-called caring politcians that campaigned for the end of apartheid have now actively backed and encouraged social apartheid.
Anti-smoking has overtaken HIV/AIDS as the new fashionable world-wide disease. At least the poor souls with HIV/AIDS were afforded some compassion, smokers, well all that can be afforded them is hate, vitriol and demonisation.
Gordon Mugabe, led by EU-Mugabe
Where did you hear about ASH going all out for a blanket ban in Spain, Joan?
I work quite lot of the time in Spain and with Spanish partners and I haven't heard anything about this?
The smoking ban IS working. It is the tool of global control which, in our case, is run by its sub-division the EU. It matters not that very few will now vote Labour, apart from the occasional by-election. Leaders of our three main political parties are now [willingly] under direct control by the EU. The EU now makes 75% of our laws and directly controls our postal services, waste disposal - almost everything. It is very doubtful that there will even be another general election. If there is, it will be meaningless.
Of far greater danger to our liberty and well being is the Lisbon Treaty. It has been signed, with no permission from citizens, by the heads of all governments in all European countries apart from Ireland. Ireland was the only country to have a referendum vote - and the Irish gave a resounding "No".
The smoking ban and all other petty restrictions are a smoke screen to divert attention from the contents of the Lisbon Treaty. People scarcely know what it is and certainly don't know its content. Once ratified by all European countries and provided that the EU can somehow skate around the Irish "No", the whole of non-smoking Europe will be ruled 100% by a handful of unelected despots in Brussels. The Nazi masterplan of total control will be in operation at last.
Anyone interested in discovering what total Big Brother control by the EU will be like, should visit the UKIP website and see the videos taken recently within EU Parliament. Then delve further and learn the actual content of the Lisbon Treaty.
Not that I underestimate the importance of continual lobbying to get the smoking ban amended. Far from it. Major problems have to be dealt with bite-sized.
Continual writing to and contacting ones own MP is very useful and a question regarding the Lisbon Treaty should be put to them at the same time.
How many MPs themselves know the content and danger of the Lisbon Treaty? Very few, I would imagine, as their own careers have a very bleak future within it. What was once known as the United Kingdom will be divided into five European regions attached to mainland Europe and all will be renamed. The traditional names of England, Scotland, Wales, etc., will cease to exist except in an historical sense. One representative from each of the five regions will be allowed into the EU parliament - and these will be the only Members of Parliament that can possibly have any say in the governing of this country - they could be French, Belgian or Dutch, of course.
You could tell your MP of this, while urging repeal of the smoking ban.
I've heard reports that Spain has been under pressure to implement a total ban.Nothing seems to have come of it. But there are regional attempts continuing. e.g. Andalucia.
Have you not seen the Spanish surveys on Freedom2Choose Peter about banning smoking in bars etc.
Perhaps I'm wrong but I don't think so. If I am apologies now.
I'm a 21 year old student from Bradford, I've read quite a few things on here but I've never commented as of yet. The smoking ban has removed a lot of enjoyment from going to pubs espcially in bad weather. None of my friends have stopped smoking since the ban although 2 have started.
Pubs, clubs and restruants should be allowed to choose their own smoking policies - what consenting adults do in private is none of the governments business. The "proctecting workers" argument is completely stupid. Even if one believes that burning plants kill people no one is forced to work in a smokey environment. In areas of work the ratio of smoking:non-smoking jobs clearly favours the non-smoker. This will always be the case since obviously if people start quitting smoking pubs etc. will adjust and more non-smoking workplaces would appear as a result.
If it were the case that people were forced to work in a pub the "protecting workers" argument sitll falls down. Obviously no-one is literally forced to work in a pub, presumably it was a choice between passive smoke exposure or homelessness. Since the ban many pubs have shut and as a result many jobs lost. So the people who were "forced" to work in these pubs are now homeless. I'm sure health wise been homeless is worse than passive smoke (even if the hype is true) and that most people would choose passive smoke exposure over homelessness. Of course now many of the people who were alledgely forced to work in pubs don't have that choice.
The smoking ban to me seems like another attempt by the government and the nanny-fascists to manufacture a its very own politically correct fantasy world. It doesn't seem to matter if the policy does more harm than good as long as the policy is politically correct. It doesn't seem to matter if what the government says contradicts reality so long as what they're saying is politically correct. Of course it's all phrased in such a way ("promoting diversity","improving public health"etc.) that anyone who questions the politically correct dogma automatically doesn't want to live in a "safe and health environment", or is rascist or an "agent" for a big evil copartion (like a Tobacco company) and is clearly an "enemy of the people" trying to undermime "society" for personal gain.
Thanks Laurence, a damn good read, and down-to-earth freshness. Makes a nice change from the comments from us 'old fogeys' on here hahahaha.
Welcome to you, Laurence, A damn good bit of writing there and a neat point about working in a smoking environment or being homeless.
Actually, before the ban many pubs etc., had greatly improved air ventilation systems and established smoking or non-smoking areas. From what I can ascertain, the majority of bar staff preferred to work in smoking pubs because they smoked themselves. There was plenty of employment choice, though, and nobody was "forced" to work in a smoking environment.
I think you can safely start to stop saying "even if the hype is true" regarding passive smoking, It has so obviously been disproven by now - even within a court of law in the USA, and even in findings announced by the Cancer Research Association of America. We still await definitive evidence that direct smoking has killed anyone at all - not one single name can be produced.
The most that can be said against it, is that it makes one's clothes smell. However, many would prefer the comforting old fashioned smell of nicotine to the harmful chemical based aerosol perfumes, deoderants and air fresheners we are constantly bombarded with instead.
Hope you will continue to read these sites throughly. There is a wealth of true information within - even that nicotine is beneficial and most pharmaceutical companies use it as the base of so many of their drugs.
Hence their war against the smokers - no profit for them there!
Spread the good word, and I hope we hear from you again.
I am a 42 year old psychotherapist. I fully support the right of non-smokers to be able to go to smoke-free pubs and restaurants if they want to (which by no means all do). However, I passionately believe smokers should have the right to socialise in places outside the home where they can smoke too. Whatever is wrong with choice?
I was an active Labour Party member for 25 years but resigned in disgust at my former party for going against its own manifesto and implementing a total ban against the wishes of millions of UK citizens.
There is no doubt that many people with mental health problems smoke as a way of coping with life's stresses and it would be interesting to know how many people's mental health has been adversely affected by this unnecessary ban. I know mine has. The smoking ban has seriously affected my social life and it has ruined many people's livelihoods too.
I read, with interest, the latest hype about the smoking ban and how it has been a success. One of the cited reasons for 'success' was that there had been very few flaunting this law. Exactly - it is a law. We are, in the main, law abiding citizens. Therefore is this not a 'success' in control? If you ask most bar owners, they will not call this a success - in fact, it is the sadly the opposite for them.
I travel a lot. This ban has made the smoking traveller's life miserable. I can't smoke in airports and, once you get through to departures, you are pretty well stuck - and then have the prospect of a couple of hours hanging around before you get on your long haul flight. Fortunately there are still some airports around the world who have the sense to recognise that they will have people in the right place if they offer some sort of smoking area. I agree with the necessity for the long security lines and getting people there early, but this is just adding to the torture. In addition to this, think about what is being inhaled when you walk to the plane. It is laughable that there can be no well ventilated smoking room yet we are subjected to jet fuel fumes anyway.
In addition, we have the hotels. It is nigh on impossible to find a smoking room and, if there is any sign of smoking materials in a non-smoking room (not even the act itself - it is enough that clothes have the whiff of smoke) they will slap a huge 'fine' onto your bill. I have spoken with hotel staff and they agree that this is a license to print money. Apparently some customers just hand over the fine and ask for an ashtray, which is willingly given. Therefore how is this anything to do with health?
I realise that my points are not just England and can apply to other places in the world. However, my point is, where is this all going to end?
I feel the hounding of smokers must stop. The government should stop the bullying tactics. People are being fed a load of rubbish through advertising and spin, making them believe we are akin to the worst kind of killer animal. This is a disgraceful 'divide and conquer' type tactic. The hospitality business (hotels) are jumping on the bandwagon seeing the £ signs (obviously that they can use to make up the shortfall in their bars)
All too often I hear people whining about having people smoking in the streets. Well, this is easily stopped - introduce a few 'smoking' bars. That will keep a nice middle ground and, from a government point of view, may actually help with the paragraph above regarding the hounding of smokers - unless they want this to carry on.
I hope I have put a few decent points over. Like most, I am in no way suggesting that all bars and public places should allow smoking as that would be totally unacceptable, just for a slight change in the rules so that the hard working tax payers ALL have a choice on how to spend their rather limited relaxation time.
Seeing as the government are adverse to amendments or repeals how about campaigning for Reform of the Smoking Ban Experiment.
All the propaganda that people have given up smoking since the ban is rubbish. Sales of cigarettes may have officially gone down, however, you can now buy contraband tobacco and cigarettes anywhere in uk, tax free. Because of this the government, having lost their tax on sales of tobacco products, have now got to get their tax to run the health service from other sources...so here we go, alcohol (at the pretence of stopping youngsters binge drinking) are they stupid, youngsters don't binge drink in pubs, they buy their alcohol in cheap off licences and drink, either before going to pubs, or mixing it under table with glass of coke whilst in pub. Then there is the 10p tax fiasco, another money making scheme to reimburse the lost fag revenue, then all the road tax increases and fines, again lost fag tax replacement, carbon taxes (climate change con taxes) NOTICE HOW IT HAS CHANGED FROM GLOBAL WARMING, THE CLIMATE IS MEANT TO CHANGE!!!! this government are unbelievable, and before long I predict a police federal state, directed by the EU, probably led by Tony Blair, with complete social control.
I have read most of the letters posted and i agree with you all but the only way forward is to fight for a total ban in the uk of all tobacco products.If we call upon our govenment to save all our lives and abandon their reliance on our meagar tax revenue then the non-smoking bregade would be up in arms of any tax increases which would occure. their would be such an outcry the govenment would have to back down and then we could all sue because we are all being sold a product that will kill us.No other product is sold legaly in this country which will cause premiture death and with the money claimed we could all live in spain and enjoy the rest of our lives in happiness?