Tuesday
Jun122007
Dinner on Drive
Tuesday, June 12, 2007 
Five Live Drive has just reported a Press Association story that "Antony Worrall Thompson is to host a freedom dinner". "July 1st will be a sad day. Supporting smokers is worth doing," Antony is quoted as saying.
ITV.com reports the story HERE. Guests - including MPs, journalists and peers - now number 266.
in Events
Events
Reader Comments (38)
Hello to be honest as a smoker as is my husband I think this Government have taken everything to far . Many local resterants and pubs will have to sack staff, as people will simply stay at home. I know that in our own town of Godalming a lot of pubs dread the ban. Why cant the pubilcans say what they want? This country is so pathetic. So even on a station platform which is OUTSIDE we cant have a Smoke. Well what has this country come to? regards Amanda h
Amandah
I'll tell you what this country has come to. We are lead by a bunch of hypocrytical liars, cheats, bully's, puritons and religeous zealots. Who have no tolerance of anybody who doesnt tow their puriton line. This ban is just the start!
You are right Sheppy and we REALLY know how rotten this government are don't we?
Next will be our own homes, secret police will have the right to enter. I appeal to all democratic people, smokers or non smokers to flood the news emails with complaints. This is dictatorship and most people are going along with it.
If July 1st is a sad day, why don't we all do something like buy wreaths and flowers and place them outside the doors of public houses and clubs (rather like the public did when the Princess of Wales died) - with notes saying: -
RIP democracy, liberty and enjoyment. We mourn the passing of a time when people could express themselves and live peacefully smoking our tobacco and conversing over a quiet pint or two. We mourn the loss of our public houses, clubs and our preferred way of life!
May i ask all smokers to post a comment about their social lives in future. Will you still go to a pub, will you just stay at home, pherhaps parties will become the future.
Andrew we already have the ban the in North and South of Ireland. People have built bars in their garages and parties are the way it has gone. Restaurants and pubs are dying on their feet. My local had a regular poker night for five years which has been cancelled as people drifted away and now play in each other's houses instead and our ban only came in at the end of March. The great influx of asthmatic non smokers has just not happened.
I still believe that the cigarette companies should offer 'Fag Flights' to European countries where you can still enjoy yourself and where the cost of cigarettes is cheapest. The savings made from bringing back our full allowance would finance each trip and this government would lose our taxes. We would also be able to afford private health care as a result of the savings so the fascist doctors would not have a hold over us either.
When the antis and the government realised the shortfall to the exchequer it may change their tune but I for one would be happy to have a weekend break in Latvia every 3 months and speak my other weekends in friends houses or in my own home.
If all this has happened in Northern Ireland over a short period of time, just imagine what could happen in densely populated England! It is indeed heartening to read Michael P's comments. The loss of revenue could be phenomenal. I won't be going to the pub much because if I drink alcohol I automatically want to smoke. So if I do go to the pub occasionally I shall drink diet coke or something non-alcoholic and this will last me a long time and I won't be spending much money. On rainy days (evenings) like today I won't be going at all. If we manage to organise a 'strike week' where no one goes, I would follow that.
Have already bought our tickets for the dinner and look forward to hearing the various speakers. Here in Ipswich my local pub is organising a smokers "ball" on the 30th and like several other local pubs has already installed outdoor heaters which whilst I find these effective Spring and Autumn it will still be too cold for me in Winter as the outdoor shelters have to have open sides. Most of the local restaurants banned smoking ages ago so tend to eat out summertime only . I have "lost" the signs I have to display in my shop so will keep you posted there, and will refuse entry to anyone checking my private office at the back - how will I stand there I do not have any employees.
Jenny; Love that wreath idea but the word "democracy" should be omitted. Democracy is what allowed this to happen.
I have read many of your posts on here today and I can see more and more anger coming out as the imposed ban gets closer and closer.
But, like I have advocated here on numerous occasions, we need a strong gathering, not just a few of us, who would be ridiculed as a "crank minority".
I was always under the impression that "Forest" was there to back the smoker, and stand up for smoker's rights, but I must admit that I have seen very little evidence of this.
If Forest will not help up, then we must find an alternative organisation who will. Does anyone out there have any ideas of who we can approach? This should of course have been done ages ago, but I, like probably many of you, thought, rather naively it now seems, that no law could ever be pushed through Parliament which would be allowed to take away anyone's human rights, and even more naively, I presumed that Forest would fight such a law and have it thrown out before it got to first base.
So, let's forget Forest, and start anew. We need a figurehead, any ideas?
If a case was taken to the Court of Human Rights, how would it stack up. If a publican opens a smoking pub with all the warnings, and staff signed a decleration knowing the risks, what's the problem.
A case was won using the European Convention on Human Rights, Andrew. In Levanger (Norway) in 2004. The judge ruled in favour of the three people who felt that they had a right to smoke during working hours. Even today, (and bear in mind the Convention was entered into force on September 3, 1953), it is illegal to withhold tobacco from prisoners of war.
The "problem" with your smokers only pub is that the Moaning Minnies would be beside themselves if they knew a group of people had gathered and were enjoying themselves.
That, and it is illegal.
Colin
Is smoking allowed in the workplace due to this verdict in Norway??????
Nope.
The firm these guys worked for told them that they could not smoke on company property, in company cars, or even, (most galling and utter stupidity) when they were abroad on company business.
Last year in Scotland we saw several people fired for smoking during working hours on company property. Had they known about this ruling, they may well have received handsome payouts, or, better yet, kept their jobs and retained their right to smoke.
Watch out for (stupid) rules like this popping up all over England in the months ahead.It becomes a competition to see who can dream up the most Draconian rules.....
If Nick Hogan is packed with smokers on July 1st, as well as many other pubs, the authorities will be locking up thousands of people, or will they.
They won't lock anyone up for breaking the stupid law on July 1st. They will be kind, and lenient, and warn the offenders, just like they first did with the weights and measures laws.
I just hope that it doesn't end with a smoker being hounded to death like it did with that equally ridiculous law, which they have now had to clim down on.
They won't lock anyone up for breaking the stupid law on July 1st. They will be kind, and lenient, and warn the offenders, just like they first did with the weights and measures laws.
I just hope that it doesn't end with a smoker being hounded to death like it did with that equally ridiculous law, which they have now had to climb down on.
Peter
What if they don't pay the fines.
"Democracy is what allowed this to happen." (Bernie)
No it didn't. If anyone voted for anything, it was for a ban on smoking in pubs that served food. That was the manifesto pledge. It got torn up when Liam Donaldson, the Government Health Officer, threatened to resign if the ban wasn't made into a total ban.
I'd accept this ban if it represented the will of the British people. But it doesn't. It represents the will of the World Health Organisation, to whose Framework Convention on Tobacco Control all WHO member states signed up around 2003. The WHO is part of the UN - the same people who are bringing you everything you hear about global warming.
"Will you still go to a pub, will you just stay at home" (andrew)
I intend to stop going to pubs, except on warm, sunny days when I can sit outside (if I can sit outside). I have no intention of going to a pub and going outside for a smoke. Nor do I intend to ever use any form of shelter outside a pub under which us smoker pariahs can collect. I won't go to restaurants either. Just take-aways from now on.
I'm someone who goes to a pub to just drink a single pint, smoke a few cigarettes, and stare into space. It's been a kind of meditative practice for years. Now I think I'll take the car to some quiet spot, and try to replicate the experience as best I can.
The mechanisms are in place - the pieces of the jigsaw are fitting together. It is now tipped by reputable sources that our beloved premier will sign us (without a referendum) into the draconian EU constitution next week which will drastically reduce the remaining powers we in Britain have. I think that many millions of people will be angry about this - if we can combine this anger with the anger about the smoking ban and other bans etc. I think something may come to fruition. July 1st could be a general day of protest about/against this radical unwanted move and the British Banning Brigade. Also - remember that our 'rulers' have messed up everything they have tried to do - like the reverse of the Midas touch. Messed up education, health service, public services and lost control of our borders. They are flailing now and clutching at straws. The time is approaching rapidly when we can take advantage of 'the achilles heel' or, rather, several of them!!
Idlex; Political democracy, as we have it in the UK, gives so little power to the people that it is inevitable for things like this to happen. As you say the manifesto did not say anything about a total ban. It didn't mention a "pre emptive" war either and I'm sure there are many other things not included. But let's say it did include those things. Would it have made any difference?
The same bill could have been introduced by any party and would have passed. The only choice we have is which party to vote for.
If we look at the so called "issues" then we might find we agree on party positions from different parties. We don't have the kind of democracy where we can vote on individual issues. I think the rational amongst us would choose to vote according to the principles that guide a party. But the only principle left in politics today is "he who has the power makes the rules so whatever will gain us power is what we do". So what is left? Personality! It is a popularity contest based on who impresses us the most.
I believe democracy inevitably leads to totalitarianism. By it's nature it means that special interest groups gain at the expense of others thus constantly creating splinters within society who are always in conflict with each other and who never see the "elephant in the room", government power, as the source of most of their problems. We have been divided and conquered by design.
Democracy is a con. It sounds great. One man one vote - anyone can stand for any governmental position. But the result can't be anything other than conflict. There are very few things that 60 million people will all agree on. A government designed for "all" the people is a better ideal, but probably couldn't happen, where nothing is done that doesn't benefit the whole of society rather than special interest groups.
In Wales we had several referendums on whether we wanted Sundays to be dry. two on whether we had an Assembly. In the UK we even had one after we joined the EEC. However, no such democratic right with this smoking ban.
Rodri Morgan, First Minister, reckoned that this would save the lives of the equivalent to 2 jumbo jets. A report I read on an American site was that the reported stats on SHS showed only 1 in 468,000 had been affected. This was commissioned by a Drug company. if this is correct, then our First Minister believes all Jumbo jets carry only 3 people. Since it takes several crew members to fly one, I wonder is flying them. Perhaps they are flown by automatic pilots.
Another quote by Dr Brian Gibbons was that this ban was not a personal attack on smokers. Strange this, as the Assembly spent £7,400 on an outdoor building for staff to smoke.That was in October, last year. You will probably guess, it was removed in April as it did not meet their specifications.
Where I work we used to have a porta cabin which was heated and had lights. Now we have bus shelter where you can't lay down a double mattress. Besides that. even the bottom of all four sides is about 2 feet off the ground so all seats are soaking wet before we can use them. The same prat would not sanction specific life-saving drugs for both Breast and Prostrate Cancer patients. Obviously, he takes the line that any form of cancer is smoke related.
Andrew asks "Will you still go to a pub, will you just stay at home?"
Personally, I do not go to pubs much anyway, not because I don't like a drink, because I do, but I prefer to eat something when I am drinking, so I either go to restaurants or tapas bars.
Whichever of the two that I choose, I do so because I like going out and enjoying myself, and a big part of that enjoyment comes from having a cigarette or two after a meal, or if in a tapas bar, having the occasional cigarette and a chat between dishes. A drink, a chat, and a smoke go together, like fish and chips or roast beef and roast potatoes.
My wife and I are both very competent cooks, we do not go to restaurants solely for the food, we go as much for the ambience, and to meet friends, and to enjoy ourselves, and when the sad day comes that a part of our enjoyment will be stopped, then I am afraid that we will just not go out so much.
We will of course, use restaurants and bars where there are outside seating, probably having to book weeks in advance I would imagine, but to have to sit inside and be ordered what to do would be in my mind, like sitting in a hospital dining room and being served by Nazi Storm troopers. Just not an enjoyable experience at all.
There will be the odd occasion when we will have to succumb, like large family get togethers, wedding etc., but in general, my answer is as I have said above. There might come a day when I will be forced to eat in a hospital, but until that day comes, I will make my own choice and stay as far away from the Nazi food bars as possible.
Ever thought why prisons are to be exempt from the ban? Why prisoners have the freedom that we don't? You may think there is no logic whatever here. You'd be wrong There.s a great deal of logic. Prisoners would rally round, climb on the roofs,throw tiles at the warders, draw attention to themselves, attract tv cameras, scream for their human rights and probably be awarded them. That is precisly the logic behind it
I know this is not an appropriate thread for this, but I beg your indulgence.
This is news of the Freedom to Choose legal challenge. Hopefully Simon will write it up so we can hear peoples views on it.
http://www.freedom2choose.co.uk/news_viewer.php?id=231
"Will I go to the pub, or will I stay at home?"
Last night I went up to my local and the landlady (whose husband, a non-smoker, has gone into hospital for heart surgery) told me the following: -
She had had a visit from the regional manager of the brewery. He brought the No Smoking signs and told her that she had to put them up on 30th June in various designated places. Also, she must 'alter' no smoking IN the premises to no smoking ON the premises. Smoking will not be allowed in the 'beer garden area' which consists of benches and tables, or anywhere on the pub's premises including the car park!!!!!! I can not believe the utter contempt this brewery and area manager have for their regular customers! It is obvious to me that some people are extending the law - there is no sheltered area, everything outside is totally exposed. The brewery obviously does not want my custom any more, but this beggers belief.
What I forgot to mention above, was that the area manager had totally forgotten all about the poor landlord going into hospital and he asked where he was when he entered the premises - the landlady said, "Probably on the operating table as we speak." - all he was concerned about was the no smoking signs and extending the law!!
Jenny; Probably not the greatest business decision I've ever heard of.
http://www.icanhelpit.co.uk/blog/default.asp
I think this is all about numbers. A few law breakers will be made an example of, thousands would cause the government a crisis, especially if they all refuse to pay fines. Let's hope there will be many pubs that defy this ban, then stand as one after.
I read the story on Bernie's website and think it is very good and apt. Even now the non-smoking rooms in a couple of pubs I frequent are mostly empty. I'm sure I read somewhere about lots of places breaking the ban on July 1st - unfortunately I only seem to know of about 4 places and none of these are even in my county. These places where they will stop smoking in beer gardens etc should simply display a sign: SMOKERS NOT WELCOME HERE.
I have asked time after time on this site, if anyone knows of another organisation, other than Forest, who will take up the fight on behalf of the smoker, and the cause for freedom, and so far, I have not had one reply.
During the weekend, I found another site called "Freedom to Choose", which has indeed taken up the cause, and is at this very moment mounting a legal challenge against not just the ban but also the right to take away people's freedom to choose.
At first I thought that I had discovered a new website which no one else on here knew about, until I looked again this morning, and saw a brilliant piece on "Freedom to Choose" written by no other than Colin Grainger, who contributes regularly on here. The piece is entitled 20 "Facts" For The Gullible"
This is a well written and obviously much researched piece, and my praises are very much in favour of Mr Grainger. But why did he never reply to my posts where I asked if anyone knew of a different organisation which would take up our cause?
"Freedom to Choose" is an excellent site, with one exception, and that is that as far as I can see, it does not show any way of logging onto the site, in order to contribute our thoughts. I have emailed the site but so far have not received any reply from them. Maybe Mr Grainger could help me this time?
Their website address by the way, is http://www.freedom2choose.co.uk/
Peter, the most informative site, with an amazing amount of info. is the multi-national www.forces.org They don't pull any punches, and get to the real heart of the matter.
Hi Peter,
My apologies. I assumed that everyone who posts here already knew about us. I am generally loathe to use Simons site to promote ours, even though FOREST link to us. Our discussion board is called The Big Debate and you need to go there and apply for (free) membership. We try to vet people as we do not need anti-smokers on the board. They seek only to misdirect, mislead, and mostly insult, so we do not allow them. (We know they have joined using false names and we are about to clean up the site and get rid of the vermin). Please come along and join us. We would be glad of your company. Go to www.thebigdebate.org and I will do what I can to speed up your membership.
Thank you for your kind words. We accept essays from guest writers so if you would like to publish a piece on our website you are most welcome.
The same invitation goes out to any other poster here, except, of course, the ban fans.....
I see we are soon to have a freephone number for the brigade to squeal on landlords who don't toe the line. I think I shall be using this on a daily basis to blow the whistle on a few butchers shops, churches, convents, kindergardens, libraries, and wherever. Come to think of it, if we all used this "service" regularely we could shop every pub in the country several times a day. How would they handle that I wonder.
Colin
I have written some posts on here. Will join the big debate.
You are most welcome Andrew!