Sign language
Tuesday, June 12, 2007 
The smoking ban is good business for some people. I have just received an email from Ryman that included the picture above and THIS link. I wonder how much money is being spent on 'No Smoking' signs?
On a similar theme, I was speaking to David Hockney's manager the other day. David is currently writing an article for The House magazine (which goes to all MPs) on the subject of the smoking ban. Given the fact that he has a studio (ie a workplace) in his London home, David wanted to know if he will have to erect a 'No Smoking' sign, and where.
The answer is that, yes, he will have to have a 'No Smoking' sign, and it will have to go by his front door. Incredibly, we were also told that the path leading from David's front door to his studio must be smoke free AT ALL TIMES!! This, don't forget, is in his own private home. The whole thing beggars belief.
Having said that, the regulations are still so vague in some areas that anyone writing about them is strongly advised to preface their comments with "It appears that" or "My understanding is that". You couldn't make it up.
Reader Comments (48)
I'd like to buy a couple of million of those cute green ones please.
They are most pleasing to my eye.
I cannot promise not to stick them on top of the horrible red ones that I may come across.....
I havent been able to smoke in my workplace for all the 10 years I have been there. All my company has ever had is a tiny sign by the clocking in machine which states 'this company operates a no smoking policy' and guess what, no one smokes inside!
These signs however are like a red rag to a bull, and I am a Taurus!!
Are we allowed to stick other signs above them in our private property?
Signs like 'This is private property with all the rights that confers upon me, but I have to stick this here by law'.
and that lovely quote from Bernie (I believe):
"Healthism - it's like fascism but with fewer calories."
By the way... does anyone think there's a possibility that the UK government are taking this to the extreme just so they can edge back a little later on and make themselves look like 'good guys' further down the road. A psychological ploy to ensure that unpopular measures are accepted on the basis of showing us how much worse things could be?
SURELY David Hockney will want to take the private property rights issue to court. Every brick in that building has been bought through his own considerable talent, time and effort. I hope he is suitably enraged to take real action over this.
All David Hockney needs to do, is to have their ridiculous signs on the inside/outside of a small cupboard or maybe a garden shed, and state that this is his workplace, where he works out all monetary transactions with his agent.
He then needs to state that his painting is his art and his passion, and not his work, which I am sure it is, and therefore, he paints as he breaths, in the privacy of his own home..
Oooh... very good Peter!
My work is my passion too. :)
Can we put a sign on ASH's office that says:
"Control Freakishness kills the spirit - and the body will inevitably follow" (?)
Poppy; It is a great quote, and I will certainly pretend it is my own when telling it to friends, but factually it came from Rob Simpson.
LOL. Thanks Bernie! Sorry Rob! Great quote by the way Rob. Superb. Just the ticket. (I'm fawning in an embarassed way).
Have we now reached such a level of absurdity that people selling goods on Ebay from their back bedrooms would have to put up a no smoking sign and refrain from smoking in their own home in order to protect themselves from themselves?
BTW why does the path leading to the building have to be smoke free - it's not an enclosed space?!
Good point, Joyce.
I was just thinking... with regard to artists, specifically. If they're working on a piece that has been commissioned - a done deal that they know they will be paid for, then I assume the signs have to be up (ludicrous as that is).
However, what about the pieces that they work on for pleasure that *might* sell, and might *not*.
If that piece sells, will they need a TARDIS so they can return to its point of creation and put the sign up retrospectively?
Another point is... why does a SMOKER, working ALONE, have to protected from HIS OWN environmental tobacco smoke? I thought the point was to protect non-smoking employees?
Poppy asks, "why does a SMOKER, working ALONE, have to protected from HIS OWN environmental tobacco smoke? I thought the point was to protect non-smoking employees?"
Oh no, you have missed the point completely, the whole excercise is to prove who is boss in this country. If this one is accepted, next will follow the case against alcohol with massive increases in tax, to help us fight this terrible addiction, don't you know.
This will inevitably be followed up by massive increases in duty and tax on all cars over 5 years old, and over 1000.CCs.
We already have a road fund tax, and a parking permit tax and tax on the petrol we buy and tax to drive into towns and accross bridges, so be fair, there is room for a few more isn't there?
Meanwhile, we all sit back and take this crap from a "government" if you'll pardon the word, that the majority of people in this copuntry didn't even vote for.
We have to do something positive now. I have been saying this time after time on these blogs, and I have also asked for help, but to date the only response I have had, is more moans and other people writing down my ideas as if they were theirs!
I want action, not moans and rip offs.
Another thought on this ludicrous law. If David Hockney will have to display signs in his home because that is where he works from, then will this also apply to every housewife and househusband who cooks and cleans and looks after their children in their homes? After all, housework is classed by the courts as work!
And what about those people who occasionally work from home on their computers, will their homes also have to display these ridiculous signs?
I don't think there is a home in the country where work of some kind or another is not undertaken.
So, from July 1st, let us, every single one of us, declare that we do some type of work in our home, and that we point blank refuse to display their silly signs. This could be the start of a civil disobedience strike against this law. The government couldn't possibly take us all to court for something as stupid as this, and it could be the thin end of the wedge which might hopefully get this law, or at least a part of it, overturned.
I would like to hear what Forest has to say about this idea, they don't seem to be for any other ideas to overturn then dreaded ban.
Sorry Peter - my point about the piece of art that 'might sell and might not' did indeed tie in with what you'd said previously. It was the 'signing retrospectively' with a TARDIS bit that occurred to me later- and was sparked by your original point.
I agree that the smoking population (plus the huge number of tolerant non-smokers who object to this erosion of civil liberties) could have an impact if they were to do something collectively, as you suggest, but how to reach all those tens of millions of people?
I imagine that this site probably gets the widest audience in the country (wouldn't you think?)
Excellent stuff Peter. I suspect there might be one or two who will break the law by not having the sign. There may even be a terrible minority, undoubtedly assisting terrorism and organised crime in some way, that will not only not have the signs but will then have the audacity to continue smoking in their own offices, workshops, or sheds at home.
Fortunately I am sure our great leaders will find some way to root these people out and expose them for the criminals they are.
http://www.icanhelpit.co.uk/blog/default.asp
Poppy; I doubt this site is getting all the newly angered. There may well be a lot of lurkers looking and checking to see what kind of weirdos we might be but I haven't noticed very much in the way of new people. I'm sure there are many out there.
I just did a search for "anti smoking ban" and found freedom2choose about halfway down the list. The rest were all about how great it is. FOREST was not on the list at all.
Bernie, I just did a search for "anti smoking ban" on Google (UK pages) and, including a BBC report of David Hockney's appearance at a Forest event in 2005, Forest is responsible for three of the top four entries.
Simon I'm sure that is true. However I was talking about those looking for a site that opposes the ban where other like minded folk could join up and maybe find ways to be active about it. Positive news items are very good as they can encourage but they are not the same thing as finding people who are active and want to do things.
How's this for positive?
http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article772700.ece
The short version is that smoking bans breach human rights....at least, they do in Norway.
Nice story Colin. In this case it was found to violate the "right to privacy" as the ban was forbidding smoking anywhere at all during working hours.
It is a great shame that all the "human rights" we have these days are those derived and approved by governments. The EU and UK laws are pretty much based on the UN Declaration of Human Rights which was largely written by communist members of the UN. And therefore property rights are limited to the "right to own" and are very minor. It isn't really about human rights at all but is a license for governments to tax, regulate and generally harass as they please. My favourite statement about rights is the American Declaration of Independence. Those guys knew a thing or two. Shame the Americans that followed didn't get it.
David Hockney is an absolutely brilliant man and he is giving us plenty of coverage and publicity. Only yesterday there was an article about him on page 3 of the Yorkshire Post (he is partly Bridlington-based) and he put an excellent almost full-page spread in on Friday May 25th. He says: -
"Those who support this dreary clinical conformity should be ashamed of themselves. We will pay a price for the loss of Bohemia, you can't by definition have a smoke-free Behemia."
There will be a price to pay - in more ways than one. I was speaking to some Scottish people in my local earlier this week and one of them mentioned that they introduced the poll tax in Scotland first as a 'testing ground' - they didn't rebel, but once it was implemented in England people went mad. They are hoping we do the same in England. Our working lives are dreary enough without having our social lives made dreary - which is happening as pubs etc. become health clubs. July 1st may become national revolt day if more unpopular things happen during the next couple of weeks (eg. signing us into the EU constitution without a referendum....)
what is becoming increasingly clear to me, given the evidence of the past, is that exposure to moderate smoke, especially in childhood, can be positive and strengthening. We now have the longest living and strongest generation ever, and these were the very people exposed during the twenties and thirties onwards to huge amounts of 'passive smoking' everywhere they went.The decline of smoking in homes etc, over the last 25 years is inversely proportional to the rise in childhood asthma. If the asthma rates had fallen, the anti smoking groups wouldn't have been slow to connect the two, but as it's the other way round, it cannot be considered.
We all know what happens to us if we are shielded too much from common diseases, we have no immunity and succumb very quickly, as though we have been living in a bubble. I believe that a little exposure to smoke also strengthens, and the communities in California, for instance, that are trying to live lives completely free of ANY so-called toxins, are making a whole lot of trouble for themselves in the future, and possibly breeding a generation of weaklings.There is more convincing evidence that this is true, than the insane claims of the antis.
So instead of just shooting down the 'passive smoking fraud', we should all be going one step further, and exposing the benefits at every opportunity. Repeat, repeat, repeat, using the governments own classic form of brainwashing.
Jenny, I have wondered, since devolution, what it means to be English. An awful lot of English people are stumped by that one, I think. If it does turn out to be true that the English *do* fight this - as they did the Poll Tax, then maybe we English can define ourselves as anti-fascists. If that happens, it'll be the first time I've ever felt any value in being English at all.
Zitori, I have no doubt that the current generations from Baby Boomers downwards have the weakest mentality of any generations since the birth of humankind. When I think of the older generations, who put their lives at risk under horrendous circumstances in so many ways; who went through hell and high water to protect the country, to make a living, to support their children and their elderly parents. To try to make a better and freer life for subsequent generations. These people are so tough and admirable. I then look at the current crop of adults who are terrified of a whisp of smoke, and who are so desperate to be thought well of by their peers (in material terms) that they no longer take time to connect with their children and dump their parents in old people's homes because they 'can't cope', I simply lose all hope.
As you suggest, weak minds breed weak bodies. I honestly believe that this desire for longevity, with all the fear-mongering that comes with it, will bring about the precise opposite.
Poppy - we have not been allowed to 'feel English' - we have had our identity taken away from us by those people who strongly support diversity and multiculturalism and stripped of our traditions and preferred way of life. I have not felt 'English' for many years. Back in 1977 at school I was in the choir and we sang a special concert to celebrate HM Queen Elizabeth II's Silver Jubilee and I felt proud to be there and be British. I was taught British and English history and taught to be proud of Winston Churchill and our soldiers/airman/navy etc. and their contribution during the First and Second World Wars. The Scottish, Welsh and Irish people have their Saint days and traditions which are still celebrated, but St George and our customs seem to have been forgotten and suppressed. I strongly believe Scottish, Welsh and Irish people should be allowed to express pride in their traditions/culture - I also wish for the same for the English. I can trace my family history back to at least the 17th Century when my forebears fought on Adwalton Moor near Driglington in Yorkshire in 1644 during the English Civil War. They were Parliamentarians (Roundheads) - fed up of a king who believed he could rule and boss people around due to divine right - which is something our wonderful good Queen today has never done. I am a descendant of fighters and, although a product of the baby boom generation, I, for one, am prepared to put up a fight.
I'm not a fan of Hockney as a painter but I'm fast becoming one as an Englishman. Being English does mean something and the reason many younger people seem to have a hard time with it is because English history and culture have been under consistent attack for a few decades now. (See Sean Gabb's book "Dispatches from a dying country" available as a pdf on his website.)
I probably ought to say at this point that I do support diversity and multiculturism. I'm a huge fan of tolerance, inclusion, liberty and the broad development of the human psyche to it's full potential - and that's largely the position that I come from on the issue of bans. In a sense, I've never felt 'English' because I don't like the idea of boundaries between people. I've always preferred to see myself as a 'citizen of the world' - a human being, first and foremost. But watching nations fall to 'the new fascism' one by one is something that has made me more curious about cultural mentalities. I HOPE that multiculturalism *does* mean that there is a strong fight for more and not less tolerance - and it will be interesting to see if the response in cities (where multiculturalism is more established) will be different to the response in the countryside and in counties that have been less welcoming.
I don't think you'll find many people 'on the ground' as it were, from ethnic minorities who support Political Correctness or 'token' treatment in the way that the middle-class whites who invented these things have done. The trouble is, no-one ever asked the people that these things would affect (to my knowledge), it seems it was just assumed by 'those who know better', and I've met many people from ethnic minorities who were integrating quite happily until PC'ness came along, and have found it to be unnecessary, unwelcome and divisive.
Essentially the same 'top-down' mentality that institutes smoking bans 'for our own good'.
I'll check out the Sean Gabb book. Thanks Bernie.
If only you are working in your own studio and no-one else I was under the impression that you could smoke.
However, more to the point, how can the authorities enforce this short of having a snoop stationed in David's house permanently?
I sometimes use my home as a workplace although only I work there. If I am supposed to not smoke when this is the case then the government can get stuffed because there's b****r all they can do about it.
Interesting too, is the fact that for a government stuffed with people who have a long record of civil disobedience with regard to strike support and other civil rights activities, I am prompted strongly to ask: what have these people forgotten or are they really just terrified there may be lots of other people just like them in this respect? As it happens there are, and will we be witnessing the police out in force truncheons swinging putting down angry freedom lovers as opposed to miners?
David Hockney is rapidly becoming my hero - he is quoted re: 1 July ban, "I shall just carry on. It won't make any difference to me. I am appalled at it actually - they are treating us like children. I'm not a schoolboy."
He seems to be in the Yorkshire Post every day just now which is excellent anti-ban publicity.
Poppy - I have read your comments carefully. In Hockney's quote, *they* - these are the white middle class guardianistas PC liberal left who are trying to impose their values and will upon us. A lovely black colleague of mine told me he hated political correctness! I probably misinterpreted your comment. However, thinking at a different level - there are people to whom I have spoken who are annoyed because they are actually saying that people of other minority groups are being treated more considerately than smokers.
Jenny
'there are people to whom I have spoken who are annoyed because they are actually saying that people of other minority groups are being treated more considerately than smokers.'
I think that what it boils down to is descrimination and in this day and age it looks as though the smoker is the only person you can legally descriminate against.
My husband drives a lorry and has said he reckons there will be many lorries, vans and cars pulled up for the drivers to have a smoke. My concern is that this will ultimately take them all longer to do their deliveries/jobs and how long will employers put up with this? Essentially, what will happen in the long run is that they will refuse to employ smokers and will be within their rights to do so eventhough they cannot legally refuse employment on the basis of age, sex, sexual persuasion, colour, race or creed and anything else that I may have forgotten. I don't suppose for a moment that descrimination against us smokers will ever become illegal though.
Bernie, Peter,Richard and all of you regular posters - I am sure there are lots of "new" watchers of this site who like me admire your commitment enormously but are perhaps a little reluctant to post because you are all so articulate. I check it every day because I fully intend to take a stand from July 1st by not displaying the signs in my shop or admitting anyone to my private office at the back and it helps to know that you are all out there. I would support any action days or boycotts as like everyone posting I am totally fed up with being dictated to and I feel so sorry for all those old soldiers who fought for our freedom. I am attending the dinner at the Savoy partly to gain confidence for my own stand that I intend to take as I dont think I will get much support round here. Please keep posting all of you.
Did any of you follow the "reference" link just to the right of the comments link?
Please do. It is a refreshing piece and, all the more powerful because it is written by a non smoker.
I liked it.
I liked it a lot.
I've put an answer to the original post on my own site but couldn't get this site to link to it.
So go here if you want to see it.
www.icanhelpit.co.uk/blog/default.asp
By the way, talking about signs, I bought a great one in Majorca a few weeks ago which is stuck in the back window of my car (you know, like the ones that say 'Baby on Board'). This one says 'Don't STOP Smoking' in white writing on a red background. There was only one left or I would have bought more.
Can't you scan it and save it as a Jpeg?
I am sure lots of people, especially on here would want them, I downloaded the green OK smoking sign and saved it as a label, which I can print off in batches any time I want. I keep thinking that I should stick them over the top of every no smoking sign I see maybe?
Peter; Good idea. Someone posted here a while ago about a pub with a sign saying "Privately owned but State controlled". I think this would make a good sticker to go on the verboten signs.
It took me ages to find this site. I was getting worried that there weren't any smokers left and I was all alone with my rage. :-) I was looking for ideas for additional stickers and I like those posted on here. My original idea was to copy the nazi eagle thing with the swastika and apply it to all the no smoking signs but my husband said that would be illegal? Would it? Maybe going a little too far do you think? I've just bought my first batch of joke cigarettes - four each for my staff and some for me, figured that the "babysitters" should be kept busy. Is that illegal yet? Sense of humour I mean. Anyway they're not really jokes, they're therapeutic, to help my employees cope with the ban :-). I cant smoke maybe, cant really afford the fines, but I can have some fun with this idiocy.
Really nice to read all of your posts. I'll keep checking in to see if there's anything new. Meanwhile I'll attempt to keep my rebellious nature under control and try my best to behave like an adult (while being treated like a child by the government).
Paula; Glad you found us. The Nazi imagery is totally appropriate. Go to this link and scroll to the bottom.
http://www.icanhelpit.co.uk/blog/default.asp
Simon. Important request.
Can you tell us where we can get David Hockney's 'End Bossiness Soon' badges?
I understand he was wearing one on TV yesterday morning, and some of us want one too.
Will he be selling them?
Fortunately I had taped the Politics Show on Sunday and there was an excellent selection of interviews in various places (working men's club in Halifax, Yorks, a pub in North Yorkshire and a bingo hall). A UKIP MEP was interviewed smoking a cigar next to a PC bossy female Lib Dem MEP and he (Godfrey Bloom, I believe) spoke really well explaining we were becoming a fascist state. Some people in the background were smoking too in the pub. then there was a short interview with David Hockney who champions our cause wearing the badge. The upshot of all this was that this bossiness will be terrible for business and there are very many clubs and pubs already on the brink of closing down.
I wish I'd seen it!
I can only hope it will pop up on You Tube.
I read a great article in Saturday's Times. I think it was by Mathew Paris.
Mr Paris questioned the use of all these anti smoking signs which everyone is being forced to display. As he so rightly put it, there are many, many things which we, the general public, know we shouldn't do, or are not allowed to do.
There are no signs telling us that we shouldn't murder people, or break into people's homes, and these are of course, real crimes, but needless to say, we don't need signs telling us not to do them, because the vast majority of people know that the law states that they must not commit such crimes.
Equally, there are no signs telling us not to spit in shops or pubs or restaurants, and not to let our dogs foul in these same places. And why don't we all drive through red traffic lights, I mean to say, there are no signs telling us that we shouldn't are there?
The list is endless, I could go on for page after page, telling you what there aren't any signs telling us what to do, but if we do break any of these laws, we know damn well that we cannot use it as an excuse in court that we didn't know about it, because as we so often hear, ignorance of the law is no excuse!
So why then, are we to be bombarded with more signs telling us that we cannot smoke in certain areas, than any other law that has ever been passed?
Could it just be that the nasty sadistic people who passed this law, not only dislike smoking and smokers and lovers of personal freedom, but that they also want to make us grovel, they want to rub our noses in it. How long will it be before we are forced to wear a badge, like the Jews had to in Germany in the 1930s, proclaiming we are unclean, we are smokers?
Peter; That is an excellent point and one I've been thinking about too. I had even planned to have some armbands made up to declare smokers as smokers.
"The Smoking Ban, It's Goose steppingly Good."
http://www.icanhelpit.co.uk/blog/default.asp
Peter Thurgood June 15 & 19- The English and Welsh legilation both make it quite clear the licensee's liability for putting up these offensive red stickers, They don't however say anything about maintaining them having been maliciosly vandalised or torn down. Provided the licensee has witnesses to verify he has put them up in the first place anything can happen to them. By the way these stickers are not there to tell us we can't smoke there for the zombies to point to should we dare to ignore them
Maybe they could be used to stub your cigarette out on as you enter?
I don't think they are intended for any other reason than to taunt smokers.
http://www.icanhelpit.co.uk/blog/default.asp
A couple of interesting facts:-
1. New York (USA) is by no means totally 'smoke free' in its bars and restaurants. There are many exemptions. Google 'smoking in New York' and click 'Smoking in New York on New York Citysearch'.
2. Different counties in NY State have their own rules. On 'smoking in NY', click 'Clean indoor air act'. Click 'Active clean indoor air act Waivers' and note how many bars are exempt.
3. In Majorca, the hotel that I have been going to for years, one year ago instituted a full no smoking policy. This year, the management relented and provided a decent- sized and comfortable room for smokers. Also, Palma airport was 'no smoking' for about two years but has now introduced a smoking room.
Smokers! All is not lost!
I think that the possibility of people marching is minimal - after all, it is true that many want to give up and fondly imagine that this law will do it for them. Anyone with any sense would know that, in itself, it will not. Also, it is very hard to march for something like smoking in the same way that it would be very difficult to march for war rather than against war.
I believe that the government must have sounded out the brewing industry in advance who may reluctantly have agree not to oppose the law as long as there was a level playing field. I believe that our best way to oppose is to make it our business to search out those establishments (pubs, clubs, restaurants) which treat us best. Abandon your local and give your custom to those who appreciate you. Make the full pubs the ones which make you most welcome and the empty one the ones which don't. I dare say that it would not be long before competition would have the desired effect.
Are you from the US by any chance Junican? The problem we have here in the UK is that there is going to be a blanket ban, everywhere, with the possibilities of the ban extending from not just enclosed spaces but outdoors as well. As you say, in New York for example, there are exemptions, but at the moment we do not have that possibility on our horizon.
I agree with you partly, on taking our custom to places where they make us most welcome, but what about the pubs and bars and restaurants where they do not have any option, who do not have outside areas? I have been going to one of my favourite restaurants here in London for over 30 years, and whose management have no objection to smoking whatsoever, but because they have no outside area they will not be able to offer us any alternative other than enforcing the draconian non smoking law upon us. I will of course, still go there from time to time, but I am sorry to say that it will not be as much as I have always done. This is just not fair, on me as a customer, or on the restaurant owner, who will surely lose a great deal of business.
You say marching will not work because "it is very hard to march for something like smoking". The whole point here is not just smoking, although that does play a very large factor. It is for freedom of choice. If we can get people marching for that freedom then I think we might have a chance, whereas if we allow this without a whimper, then what will they take away from us next? You know the list, it is endless.
Junican
I would like to know where you found a smoking room at Palma airport in Majorca. I came back from there a few weeks ago and didn't see any evidence of one. Of course, the airport is huge and alway very busy, but any help you can give will be welcome.
Cheers
I just read this great quote by Churchill on another site, and I think it is something that we should all stick by.
.
Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.
Lyn,
You need to find Gate 20. The smoke room is behind the seating area. It is minimalistic with some simple chairs and tables. The good news is that it is constructed of plain glass partitioning with glass automatic sliding doors so that you could leave kids sitting just outside and be able to keep an eye on them.
Peter,
No, I'm not from NY! I'm from Bolton Lancs.
(Yes, I know about what's-his-name!).
I know about Freedom to Choose, especially that of publicans to decide for themselves.
What I was saying essentially is that I think that we must be PATIENT. I suspect that there will be people who rarely go to pubs going in for a half to see what is happening but reverting to type after a week or two. I think that we must, in the short term, avoid breaking the law like the plague because the bosses will be deliberately searching for offenders to make examples of 'pour encourage les autres'. I think that publicans need to stricktly adher to the word of the law - which, as far as I know, does not require them to attack smokers, batter them, ban them and throw them out into the street.
I have two local pubs which I frequent a lot and have been doing so for 20 years. At the moment, neither of them seem to be taking any steps to accomodate smokers. Thus, much as I have many aquaintances in both and have friendly relations with the staff, my 'loyalty' has to go out of the window. That is my point about the breweries - we have to unlevel the level playing field!