Smokers face double-whammy
Friday, June 1, 2007 
The Daily Telegraph today leads with a story about smokers being liable for an £80 on-the-spot fine for stubbing out cigarettes in the street. Nothing new in that: as the paper reports, the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act has been in force for two years and in that time a number of councils have made it their business to fine smokers either for dropping cigarette butts or even (on at least one occasion) flicking ash out of a car window! Until now, however, few councils have enforced the law. Hence my quote:
"It is very unfair to target smokers for littering at the same time as the ban comes in. We don't condone littering, but it is a national problem. It's not just about cigarette butts, it's about drinks cans, fast-food cartoons and chewing gum. If the fines are used a blunt weapon to beat smokers we will resist them."
Another point I made (which didn't get in) was that, yes, smokers should help 'keep Britain tidy', but local authorities should share that responsibility and provide cigarette bins or - at the very least - make it easier for pubs and other businesses to get planning permission for bins. The truth is, many councils think cigarette bins will encourage people to smoke (ie it "normalises" the habit). They would rather employ wardens to catch and fine smokers for dropping fag butts than help people smoke responsibly.
Full story HERE.
Reader Comments (24)
I think it's even more sinister than catching and fining smokers for dropping their butts. Increased cigarette litter will help garner public support for further restrictive legislation against them.
I'm not big on conspiracy theories but these days I wouldn't put anything past them when it comes to demonizing smokers.
Must admit when I hear about how helpful and conscientious officials are it makes me want to shake their hands... alright maybe their necks too.
If I'm out in public I always use a suitable cigarette butt recepticle (provided by our glorious council)to stub out my fag. If however there is none available I simply use a drain and if any Town Warden has an issue with that I would say 'theres the drain, prove it!'
A couple of weeks ago I walked 400 yards up Union Street in Aberdeen looking for somewhere suitable to dispose of my cigarette end. I passed 6 or 7 litter bins but I may have caused a fire, so I trudged on, and on, and on. Eventually I came across a pub and used their wall-mounted monstrosity.
I think they want us to discard them on the floor so that they can generate income, and make us look like litter louts at the same time.
Must be part of that "denormalisation" process...
Watch out I reckon once the ban comes in drinkers will be hit next. The same respect should be given to smokers that non enjoy
Talking of the "denormalisation" process.
http://www.icanhelpit.co.uk/blog/default.asp
Here we go yet again us smokers. What a crazey world. We have brought our own pocket Ashstrays so no warden will catch us out !!! But speaking to various people including NON Smoking people they feel really sorry for us smokers and say the law is really cracked, as many pubs will have to lay staff off also Taxis will suffer as people will go and buy in drink and easy foods and stay in and smoke.I dread taking a flight out of the airport as I am a nervous passenger and will really crave for a ciggie then !! So what next drink warnings here we go barmey ENGLAND . AmandaH
I think it is long beyond the time when smokers should have been targetted for the littering that they do - a filthy habit which for us non smokers is made even more objectional by the way in which most smokers just throw their butts, matches, cigarette packets anywhere and everywhere. One of the main reasons why most of us have no sympathy for you all.
Most smokers, Toby?
Precisely what proportion of the 15 million or so smokers in this country have you actually surveyed on their disposal habits?
Also on 'most of us have no sympathy' - most of whom? Which group do you represent?
I've got a pocket ashtray, but it is pocket-sized, so where on earth am I meant to put all the fag butts if I'm out for a whole day?! I'm just curious as to whom the nanny state is going to pick on next!
The simple answer to all of this is for local authorities to attach ash trays to the side of all street bins. If some people then continue to cause litter either with discarded chewing gum or cigarette butts then a specific offence of 'failing to use the ash trays provided' could then be levied.
I must say though that I would rather step on a discarded cigarette butt than sticky chewing gum or dog faeces
Littering not good enough? It carries an £80 fine as it is - making it a greater offense than speeding.
Can we now expect a fast ban or a chewning gum ban, can we now demonise eaters for the litter around these outlets?
This is just another excuse to target smokers and bully us. Toby Elliott, I was in Leeds yesterday and the place is disgusting - all kinds of litter everywhere in pedestrian precincts - ok, cigarette butts here and there, (because no one can smoke in any indoor shopping centre - huge Rauchen Verboten boards and signs everywhere) but in spite of numerous rubbish bins, the volume of litter was a disgrace - and don't tell me it is smokers who are responsible for all that, because that is absolute rubbish! (forgive the pun) Re: chewing gum ban - I went to see Rick Mayall (New Statesman fame) in York last year and he'd become a New Labour MP - Alan B'stard - and that focused on the new 'chewing gum ban'!!!! Yes, Ken Walker, it's on its way! I've seen Bernie's website www.icanhelpit.co.uk/blog and shall be ordering some posters etc.
The fine for smoking in a pub will be £50. The fine for throwing away a fag end outside a pub is £80. This means that it will be cheaper to smoke in a pub
The story about one smoker being fined for throwing or flicking ash out of the car window reminds me of a feedback questionnaire that I received from Volkswagen 4 years ago. I had taken delivery of my very first brand new car which included on the dashboard an ashtray and cigarette lighter!
I remember having something to say about it and noting my thoughts on the questionnaire. Some 4 years later, it's interesting to note that Volkswagen now fit a "Non Smoking Pack" as standard whilst offering a "Smoking Pack" (ash tray and lighter) as an optional extra at additional cost.
Although there is no prospect of me starting smoking, if I did I suppose I'd have no choice but to flick the ash out of the window and risk a fine.
Robert - I don't think the problem was him flicking ash, it was about him dropping the cigarette afterwards.
I do wonder however, how long will it be before some do-gooder starts thinking about getting cigarette ash classed as litter.
Rob. This might come sooner than you think. In Bangor North Wales, a few weeks ago 2 16 year-olds were taken to court for drawing pictures on paving slabs. Evidence was washed away whilst the police were booking them. they were still £80 each for their crime. What chance do we have if we ask did these smoke wardens get a DNA sample.
These darwings were done in chalk and was intended to brighten up the city.
During the time I worked for Norwich Union, the powers that be decided that it was a "health hazard" to workers entering the office (next to busy ring road) to have to pass smokers "puffing away" outside! We were told we would have to move at least 10m away from the office and the cigarette bin was removed because they felt that it would "encourage smokers to smoke around the building".
Of course next we were bombarded with complaints about the fag butts in and around the drain!!!
What world do these people live in? - If the traffic were banned, quad masts taken down and a mobile phone exclusion zone existed for the general public safety, I might actually see some sense in all of this hypocrasy!
I have just returned from Majorca where every 10 paces or so in the resort we stayed in there was a bin with facilities for stubbing out. As this is not available in most places in the UK I bought several pocket ashtrays to use here so as not to be caught out.
I think this heavy handed law is to help get back some of the tax lost by those smokers who decide to give up and others who choose not to start. Don't get me wrong, I am a smoker, but do not condone people starting and I do applaud those that choose to give up and actually succeed. The fact for me is that I do not want to give up and unless I do there is no point in trying. Stress is a big factor with me and I know many people suffer from it, but I am convinced there are different types and levels of stress and as we are all different, we all react differently to it. I am already on medication due to the impending smoking ban and the additional stress this is putting on me, if I could not smoke at all I would be a complete zombie from the medication I would need. This I have just proven as I take additional medication when flying, not because I am afraid to fly but because I can no longer smoke in airports which I find I need to do because of all the hanging around. I also get very nervous of my flight being delayed once I have passed through security as I am then trapped with nowhere to go to have a smoke and I could be trapped there for hours. My Consultant prescribed something stronger for me this time and I can honestly say that I do not remember the flight, disembarking or collecting my luggage. Fortunately my husband was with me and although it is a struggle for him he managed to cope with not smoking, but if he had also been on the medication we would have been in a right state!
I have no problem with some areas and places being smoke free to cater for those who are paranoid about catching cancer from SHS (which is yet to be proven) or just don't like the smell, but I firmly believe I also have the right to an area where I can smoke. My late father always believed that air rage commenced once smoking on flights was stopped (he used to be senior cabin crew) and this he put down to the high levels of tension caused to smokers - it can only get worse.
I think its about time the English people stood up and were counted. We allow all sorts of things to happen here in our counrty. Smoking being banned in all public places is just another way of taxing us all. On the spot fines are a way of collecting yet more money from smokers. We live in a NANNY state, Big brother is watching and collecting information all the time. I got a letter today from my GP asking if I smoked. How many a day. I will Not as a matter of principle answer the letter. If I choose to smoke thats up to me. How long will it be before I am told I am not allowed to smoke in my house, which I own by the way. How long is it going to be before we are all told what we can and cant do on an everyday basis. I really think its time we all got together and told the government we are not going to be bullie dinto doing what we are told. We have HUMAN rights too. We pay more than any one else for ciggys, we are taxed on everything. What we need is a group of people to stand up for our Human Rights. A group that will not take all this lying down and back off at the fisrt hurdle. There are so many smokers and yet we have all allowed this to happen to us. We should all make a stand, all go to downing street and smoke outside no 10. After all we all pay for those who live in there and do as they please.
It makes me sick, when i was young the doctor would give my mother a ciggy if she was a bit stressed, no the docotrs are trying to stick a label on me for being a smoker. No Way.
This is outragious and we need to all stand firm and smoke where we like and not PAY the fines. If everyone said No to paying the fines, what would happen......We would win.....Its all a question of being bullied into doing what the government wants.
We are indviduals we should not be treated like dromes. I think everyone who smokes should light up in a public place on the 1st july and stand there ground. I for one wont be told where and when I can smoke.
This is truly a Pathetic country. I can understand that Resteraunts want to have non smokers but let the pubs have a say so Many places and resteraunts too will close down They simply dread JULY1ST And this is true.Live and let live We have got our own pocket ashtrays and bags in which to place the butts in at the end of the day. I think pubs will have a real battle on thier hands and wow I feel so sorry for so many of them. Amanda H
Here in Wales we have a disaster. Pubs closing down everywhere, and half the tenants who are still open are trying to sell their tenancies with no sucsess. So what happens when a tenant goes bust? Is the licence then suspended til the brewery can find another tenant? And can the ex-tenant then stay on as a rent paying resident. And does not the whole pub then become a private residence? If so, then this must be an opertunity to find a way around the ban. There would be nothing stopping him inviting lots of friends round every night for a social evening, He can't of course sell any beer, but his guests could always bring their own four-packs. He would just supply the glasses and ashtrays. He would of course have to cover his expences, but that's easy, what's wrong with every guest buying a home-grown lettuce off him before they go home? This may not be the ideal drinking environment but at least they would'nt have to endure the pathetic hand flapping and forced coughing from the brain-washed zombies who infest the licenced pubs. Does this sound like a feasable idea or have I missed something?