CAMRA: what's brewing in Westminster?
Tuesday, March 16, 2010 Tonight the Campaign for Real Ale (CAMRA) and the All Party Parliamentary Save the Pub Group are hosting a debate in the Palace of Westminster. "Who will save the pub?" they will ask.
The event will be chaired by Greg Mulholland MP (Lib Dem) with a panel consisting of Tobias Ellwood MP (Conservative), Don Foster MP (Lib Dem) and Mike Benner, CAMRA's chief executive.
The invitation also lists John Healey, the government's recently appointed "pubs minister", but I understand he's not coming. (Oddly enough, he didn't come to a recent Private Members Debate on "The future of the British pub" either. See HERE.)
I wouldn't say tonight's event is being stage-managed, but questions from the audience were required in advance (the deadline was 5.00pm yesterday). Forest, on behalf of the Save Our Pubs and Clubs campaign, submitted the following question:
"Given the negative impact of the smoking ban on many pubs, especially those without an outdoor facility, would members of the panel support an amendment to the legislation that would give landlords the option of offering their customers a separate, well-ventilated smoking room so that those who wish to smoke can do so in comfort, indoors?"
I understand that one other question has been submitted about the smoking ban. If either is put to the panel it will be interesting to hear their replies. Ellwood (the shadow tourism minister) and Foster both voted for the ban. Mulholland (I imagine) will be more sympathetic but it's Benner's response I really want to hear.
You see, I was told a couple of weeks ago by the former editor of What's Brewing, the CAMRA newspaper, that in 2005 CAMRA's AGM passed a motion opposing a comprehensive ban, and this remains CAMRA's official policy today.
You'd never know, though, because they keep very quiet about it. In fact, you're more likely to hear members argue that thanks to the ban you can now taste the full flavour of real ale!
Frankly, we will be fortunate if there is any discussion on the smoking ban tonight, but I hope to be proved wrong. Report to follow. Watch this space.
PS. Ann Main is the Conservative MP for St Albans where CAMRA has its headquarters. Last month Main declared herself to be a "lifelong supporter of CAMRA". Fact: in February 2006, contrary to CAMRA's official policy, Ann Main voted for a comprehensive ban on smoking in pubs and clubs.
Reader Comments (14)
This is Mike Benner discussing the smoking ban in 2004. This is from their website, I probably do not need to comment.
"Smoking Ban Threat to Community Pubs 16/11/2004
CAMRA, the Campaign for Real Ale, expresses concern that the smoking ban will be divisive for community pubs. Community pubs will face the stark choice of tearing up their food menus or alienating regulars by banning smoking.
CAMRA calls on the Government to allow pubs where there are two or more entirely separate rooms to allow smoking in one, while other rooms where food is served are made smoke free.
Mike Benner, Chief Executive of CAMRA, raised concerns about the proposals."
http://www.camra.org.uk/page.aspx?o=180806
Feb 2007
"Millions will return to the Pub after Smoking Ban - 20/02/07" - CAMRA
June 2007
"CAMRA National Chairman Paula Waters said: CAMRA believes that the future for pubs lies in offering the public an experience beyond simply a place to have a drink and a smoke. Our research has shown that non-smokers will be attracted to pubs after the ban comes into force, and many of them would like to find a real ale waiting for them when they get there. Striving to offer a pleasant and memorable experience for everyone who walks through the door of a pub will mean there is no reason why there should be any drop in trade in the long term."
2008
"figures release by CAMRA in early 2007 reported that only 25% of real ale drinkers smoke compared to 43% of lager drinkers."
I could't find the 2008 CAMRA report that welcomed the ban.
----
2012
Of course, all real-non-alcoholic ale pubs will benefit enormously when the ban on real ale comes in next year. Just think of all the teetotalers who haven't felt comfortable in pubs before. At CAMNRA, we really believe that pubs are about to undergo a new golden era.
The ELEPHANT in the room and the answer to the problen that NOBODY wants to talk about.
Modern Air Filtration systems, not the old ventilation systems that were so vilified by the Anti-Smoking lobby, are the solution.
Why does the Government refuse to even consider Indoor Air Quality Standards, surely this would be a benefit for all.
Maybe it's because someone might ask the question " if you are considering Indoor Air Quality Standards " then what are you going to do about Outdoor Air Pollution?
There was NEVER any need for a smoking ban in Pubs and Clubs if air filtration had been properly considered.
I think CAMRA's stance is best summed up by a quote from Churchill on appeasement, "An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last."
CAMRA has a membership of 100,000 people and is taken seriously by Gerry Sutcliffe the Labour Licensing Minister and his Shadow Jeremy Hunt. I was presenting at a debate hosted by left wing Institute For Public Research (IPPR) and arranged by CAMRA in February 2009, where Sutcliffe was present.
I got the impression that CAMRA fell on their sword on the smoking ban to obtain concessions elsewhere. However the latest adverts on the TV by the Department Of Health suggesting that consuming more than 2 pints a night is bad for you takes CAMRA back to square one. They might as well get the condiments out and sprinkle salt and pepper on their bodies.
I was just about to recommend a CAMRA member's website Pub Curmudgeon who has posted here on TL before. A non smoker he would like to see an amendment. What pops up as his lead article is the Labour Party's plan to reduce the drink driving limit from 80mg to 50mg, here is his opinion. "Over time, such a reduction would have a slow, insidious effect on the pub trade at least equal to that caused by the smoking ban, and the effect would spread much further than the stereotypical “country pubs”.
Perhaps CAMRA should fatten themselves up out of decency for the crocodile.
http://pubcurmudgeon.blogspot.com/
Camra meeting 07-07-2015.
A temperence bar ,somewhere in England.
What a fine carrot juice this is .
Yes splendid nose, very carroty.
Of course a fine carroty finish too.
Right let's be really wicked and move on to the tomato juice !
Get the picture now chaps ?
Ban merchants don't know when to stop.
Specky says "Get the picture now chaps ?
Ban merchants don't know when to stop"
In New York, which I believe was one of the first places to implement a smoking ban, they are now calling for a ban on using salt in all restaurants. No, this isn't April 1st, this is real, this is how effing stupid these people are, and if they do get away with it, guess who'll be calling for the same next?
Why is a tiny group like CAMRA being invited to discussions on the future of British pubs? The majority of British people hate the taste of real ale.
That's a good point Jim. Presumably because the Government doesn't expect much trouble from them.
CAMRA are prats and having worked in the industry for a number of years certainly would not want them as regular patrons. They make snide comments about non handpumped ales and lagers while nursing a half a pint of warm p*ss for three hours. I am glad the country pubs are closing because if they thought these bunch of w***ers would replace the money spent by smokers then hell rub it up them.
Thanks for the mention, Dave :-)
The thing about the smoking ban (and the proposal to cut the drink-drive limit) is that the effects are slow and insidious, so much so that some self-deluding people do not even see them happening at all.
Rather than immediately decimating the trade of particular pubs, it leads to an across-the-board decline in custom, which ends up with the weaker pubs going to the wall, but the stronger ones in many cases surviving. So the appeasers can comfort themselves with the thought that the pubs closing were the small, dingy, unappealing ones anyway, and they can still point to some other pubs that seem to be doing well.
It is like the proverbial "boiling a frog" - the frog being boiled in a pan doesn't notice it is getting hot until it is too late. One day CAMRA may wake up and think "Shit, where have all the pubs gone to?"
I think you may already be aware of my view of CAMRA
Dave A: Damn fine croc post, that.
They either believed all the ASH BS or colluded with them. Stupid or bigoted? Not a lot of difference really.
Lets cut the crap and gibber on CAMRA and similar
"fronts".ASH ,TALKING HEADS,,,AD NAUSEAM
They really relish the pathetic opposition they encounter on Webattlefields,Googledom and Utubia.
They make the rules and pick the pitch,the freedom
boys just twitter and blog to the same 1000 disciples.
How can anyone let anger have it's way down an optic
fibre or copper wire.
Lob the slippers and slide on the Doc Martins.give the
Log Off badge the big arrow and start recruiting
in the back streets and country lanes.
Yes ,we know they're chavs and knobheads ,but they
were usefull at Waterloo and El Alamein and when the
battles won they can allways be chucked back to their
tenements and sink estates.
Stop being chique,nouveau,pleasant and losers,
change the rules of combat,start singeing the fluff
Or carry on losing
The Free Corps
(No relation to the FREIKORPS)
Just in case any Pinko shit themselves