Monday
Jun222009
No smoking in the station!
Monday, June 22, 2009 
Thanks to Rob Lyons, deputy editor of the online magazine Spiked!, who sent me this picture. Rob writes:
"So I'm on York station a couple of weeks ago and the tannoy announcement repeats that smoking is banned anywhere in the station. Meanwhile, on a platform nearby ..."
Reader Comments (20)
Just goes to show how crazy mad this world has become.
The PC, Spin Doctoring multi million charging, money mad useless quangos that were set up by the useless empty headed money laundering labour government in the last decade of a false economy based on lies and fraud and hype, with nothing to show for it now only this sad and dispairing disruption of people's basic human rights and civil liberties, should be HUNG DRAWN AND QUARTERED and their asses kicked out of govt as soon as possible.
You may have missed this Simon, a very funny and true social comment on smoking, PC and fake charities by stand up comedian Steve Hughes this Saturday night.
http://dickpuddlecote.blogspot.com/2009/06/comedy-or-social-commentary.html
When a friend and I changed trains on our journey to London for last year's Forest event, I noticed how frequently they announced that smoking wasn't allowed ANYWHERE on the platform. There is absolutely no justification for it yet I and my defiant fellow smokers were cowed enough to light up out of sight. The jobsworths have now gained so much power that it's easier to avoid confrontation but what a terrible state of affairs that adults are bullied into behaving like kids behind the bike shed.
I always smoke on my station and I have only been challenged once, and that was by a member of the public who I told to go and stand on the opposite platform, or something like that!
Thanks for keeping me fired up. Not sure what the answer is, but I'll keep forging ahead, despite the defeats and absurdity of it all. Thanks for running my story in "Spiked" last week with Christopher Snowdon. Geez, you call a couple of people in Tobacco Control crooks, wackos and loudmouths and they get pissy. All commonsense and logic has been lost. You can't even embarrass these greedy,phonies anymore. Pictures are worth a thousand words.
A few inches can mean the difference between life and death? Tobacco Control lead us to believe that smoking on a platform will kill thousands of people, but walking a couple of inch off the platform and nobody will be harmed?
Be brief, James, be brief.
I am in favour of landlords deciding whether or not smoking is allowed in their pubs. In which case, why should railway station operators not have the same right?
The reason is that we are not comparing like with like. Landlords are legislating about rules INSIDE BUILDINGS. Railway station operators are legislating about rules OUTSIDE BUILDINGS.
The two situations are totally different.
One reasonably asks whether or not the railway people have ANY RIGHT to make such a rule. Personally, I doubt it. I feel that, if a case went to court, it would be found that, providing that there was no specific law passed by parliament, there would be no right for organisations to determine what happens in the FRESH AIR - regardless of whether or not was IN their premises. We think of smoking in a pub car park, on the streets, etc. We think of California, where such legislation exists - fair enough, if that is what the people have decided, but our people have not so decided.
Not long ago, I went by train to Manchester and noted the 'no smoking' signs on the platform.
I did not smoke - despite the fact that I was one of only about ten people on the platform. Why did I not smoke? Because I was not sure how DANGEROUS it might be to smoke. I obviously do not mean dangerous to others because there were no others to speak of. I mean DANGEROUS in the sense of being thrown out of the station by security guards and thus missing my appointment in Manchester. The same consideration applies in Manchester Airport. No Smoking outside the Departures Entrance. Why? Because, IN THEORY, the Departures Entrance is in an enclosed place, despite the fact that the enclosed place is 100 yards long, 50 yards wide and 15 yards high, ie a TUNNEL. But I WILL axcept the dictats of the airport authorities because I DARE NOT RISK the possibility that security guards will throw me out of the airport.
There has to be an answer to this problem (danger of failing to comply), but I do not know what the answer is.
The brainwashing that has succeeded with so many people, alas, is very much a big problem.
We were sat on one of 4 tables outside a little cafe in our small town the other week, with a coffee and a cigarette. However, when my husband went in to order the coffee another customer said that as it was a nice day they wanted to sit outside 'in the fresh air' but there were people smoking out there - shock horror!
My husband, for once, actually made a stand and said that firstly, if they were that fussed perhaps they should campaign to change the law and allow smokers inside and if they don't like that, they can go outside - wouldn't be so much fun in the cold and wet though, would it! He also pointed out that being sat a couple of yards from the main road with constant traffic passing by, how fresh did they think the air was?
One of the staff also stood up to them and said the purpose of the tables outside were for their smoking customers and if they didn't like it they could go elsewhere, which they did, to a cafe around the corner that had no outside tables!
Is it just me, or is there really a sad lack of reality in the world today? How can people still believe that they are in 'fresh air' when on a main road anywhere, so long as no-one is smoking around them?
Obviously, the picture above shows the extremes of this stupidity - how harmful are the toxins and gases being spewed from that engine, compared to a little wisp of cigarette smoke?
Stop the World someone and let me off, please, I don't think I can take any more of this crass stupidity.
I am going to Altrincham today, South Trafford College to be precise. This has been renovated and extended including new buildings, it is huge. New massive car parks go back a long way, at the furthest point the buidings are in perspective. What signs are in these car parks? you have guessed it. Equally massive ugly red signs saying it is against the law to smoke on these premises. Yes, that's right, the ugly signage produced for buildings staring at you in the open air.
This is Trafford Borough Council putting up the wrong signage. I give up.
By the way, I was challenged by a security guard in the car park of the smaller North Trafford College, being told that I could not even smoke in my car on college grounds. He informed me of this and discussed the smoking ban with me whilst I stood next to the open door of my car, finishing my cigarette and stubbing it out in my ash tray!!
One final point. College grounds are smokefree, but the pavement outside, in full view of the main road, is littered with students puffing away and adding to the inadequate and overflowing outsoor ashtrays.
I was at Warwick University a few weeks ago, and no such restrictions there, as far as I could see. I also went to a birthday party at a pub recently, and almost EVERYONE was smoking in the outside area.( alovely evening though) In fact it was difficult to find a non-smoker. Most people don't give a damn either way, although it's easy to let a few idiots make you feel everyone's against you. It's not true, and smoking is becoming more prevelant. Maybe that will become the downfall of the Antis in the end, because it will come.
I've also noticed more people smoking lately. I think its becoming like the forbidden fruit, ban it and it becomes more and more attractive to everyone.
They had the same thing in America when they had prohibition. People who had never drunk before in their lives started drinking.
I was stuck in traffic this morning and had plenty of time to observe other drivers, so many of them smoking.
Great isn't it! The stupid Labour party has done this!
AMENDMENT!! During the three weeks since I last visited the college in Altrincham I previously mentioned, they have finally (no doubt following many months of questioning) erected new signs - 'It is against the law to smoke on this site'. mmm obviously some jobsworth has spent many months thinking this one up, as 'the site' includes enclosed buildings.
Now that I have finished needing to use the college, I am considering making a daily visit to the car park to have a cigarette!!
The railway pic reminds me of a short video I took a year or so ago of a Burger King whose kitchen "air scrubbers" must have been broken. See the little video square at:
http://www.smokersclubinc.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4415
and remember it the next time you see an Anti saying "Well, there's no such thing as seocondhand eating!" or "Having a room with its own ventilation isn't good enough" (Obviously restaurant kitchens are prime examples of how such ventilation works even with the huge amount of smoke generated by Burger King!)
Michael J. McFadden
Author of "Dissecting Antismokers' Brains"
I refer to Timbone's comment of 23rd above.
Is there really a sign which says, "It is against the law to smoke ON this site"? If so, then it is manifestly wrong because the law refers to 'premises' and the recommended wording is 'IN these premises' - we know why those words are the recommended words - because they refer specifically to the ENCLOSED nature of the place. There is no way that a car park, in the open air, can be considered to be 'an enclosed place', and therefore it is not against the law to smoke there.
This is exactly the point that I was making in my post of 23rd - that there is no law that prohibits smoking anywhere in the fresh air (not substantially enclosed) nor is there a law which PERMITS organisations to prohibit smoking 'on their premises', if the premises are in the fresh air. If that were true, I could erect notices on my property saying, "It is against the law to wear clothes on these premises."
The problem is, as I said earlier, how far can one go to insist on one's rights? It is not easy. Certainly, the idea of entering into combat (verbal!) with a security guard fills me with horror - no way can you win.
A couple of points occur to me.
I am not sure that people who are not policemen or have similar authority have any right to speak to you at all. Or, put better, have any right to expect you to listen to what they say. Funnily enough, I think that this is quite important.
I know that this sounds a bit farfetched, but I feel sure that the normal formalities of inter-personal relationships are breaking down. It seems that anyone, given a uniform by, say, the chief exec of an hospital, can say anything he wants, bully and coerce members of the public, at his whim. Now, UP WITH THIS I WILL NOT PUT. I had the unfortunate experience of being 'bullied' by a manager at my local library. No need to go into details, but NO WAY was I being cowed. And so, I complained to the Chief Exec of the Council, and then I complained again. And I complained and complained. And I will continue to complain until THEY GET THE POINT.
I would love to go into the details but I fear that it would be boring. Is it, though?
OK, briefly. I borrowed books which where not on the public shelves, but were in storage. I religeously renewed them on the due date. On this occasion, this manger refused to renew them saying, "Oh, it's you again". In order to stop me reserving them again on the internet, she took them out of circulation on a 'repair' ticket. After 6 months, I have now borrowed these books again and, needless to say, they have not been repaired.
I am going to complain.
The point I make is that people who don a uniform or get the title 'Manager' think that they can say what they want to you, but is that right? I do not think so. I think that one has every right to say, "Who are you? What right do you think that you have to speak to me?"
The second point that I wish to make is one that I have already touched upon.
COMPLAIN.
It is a very sad fact that, although there are 15 million smokers in this country, hardly anyone at all COMPLAINS - I mean, complains to their MP, local authority, hospital authority, airport, etc. One does not have to say that one will 'withdraw one's custom' (say, from one's local airport - difficult to do!), one merely needs to COMPLAIN - AGAIN AND AGAIN.
It is a terrible pity that smokers are so badly organised.
We have the web-sites but not the numbers.
Sorry to be so verbose, but these things are not simple.
James Watson.
By all means complain about everything under the sun if you feel it could achieve positive not negative results. However, I would advise caution regarding drawing attention to that part of the law covering smoking in "open spaces". This EU controlled government still holds the majority in both Houses of Parliament and still has a strong Whip. If we bring to their attention any possible ambiguities or omissions regarding smoking in open spaces, they could extend the existing law at the drop of a hat. Children's outdoor play areas and public parks come to mind.
Better to wait and see the outcome of the next general election and see whether our new parliament still consists of parties directly under the control of EU fascism.
Meanwhile, the many “Save the Pubs” campaigns already started, plus the addition of this recent strong Forest-backed campaign, could provide the chink in the present legislation that we need.
One of the biggest problems James, is that not enough people ever get to know about organisations such as this, and what they do and what they stand for.
I was telling a couple of friends of mine last night, about the new campaign to amend the smoking ban which I attended yesterday. Both these friends are not smokers but they are smoker friendly, so much so that they suggested we sit in a smoking area outside the restaurant we were in, so that I could smoke.
But without wishing to sound off towards my friends, they just didn't know what it was all about. The guy asked me if I had a good time. I did have a good time, but that wasn't what it was about. I tried explaining to him that it was about amending the ban etc etc. So did I go outside to have a fag then? he asked, "that's what it's all about isn't it, having a fag with your mates" he said.
Good God, if that were true. I never ever go and stand outside a pub or a restaurant just to "have a fag with my mates". This is all about the taking away of our freedom as far as I am concerned, whether it is the freedom of smoking, or the freedom of driving, or eating, or voting. I want freedom. My father fought for it, why should I allow it to be taken away by morons in our parliament or worse still un-elected bureaucrats in Europe?
Peter, I totally agree with your last paragraph - the rest too, but the last para especially.
My father was a bit too young to fight for freedom in WW2, but my grandfather was involved in both WW1 and WW2, as was his brother (although under age) and many other members of my family.
I believe it is more than criminal the way their lives have been wasted, along with many others, in a battle for freedom that our own 'government' of morons, has now wiped away without a second thought. The further insult, of course, is the basis for the ban - just like Hitler, all their 'scientific facts' are LIES!
Peter,
Hope you managed to convince them, without exploding first, that it wasn't just about "having a fag with your mates".
I get this all the time. First, the swift look up and down which classifies me as a nutcase smoker. Then the glazed look of embarrassed disinterest crossing their eyes. Then the polite announcement that, "Well, I don't smoke myself, so it doesn't really affect me." Then the inevitable eager brand-new observation that they "must say" they appreciate not having to go home from a pub smelling like an ashtray.
Never, in the history of brainwashing, has there been a campaign as successful as this. Useless for me to point out that it will be drinking, eating and every other normal human function next. Misguided fanatics like me are just not worth listening to, let alone taking seriously.
Meanwhile more and more antidepressant profit piles up for the pharmo's; the hospitals are full to bursting with ever increasing heart disease, asthma, Alzheimer’s, hospital bug and cancer patients, Sickly children go miserably to and from their smoke-free classrooms to their smoke-free homes. A grey atmosphere of no hope hangs all over everything.
WHAT exactly has been achieved by all this persecution? You can't even discuss it in comfort down the pub.
My rant for today over, but still continuing Peter's comment.
If I am forced to be in a pub or hotel bar and someone gets into a conversation with me, I tell them that if they want to continue the conversation, they will have to do it outside as I like a cigarette with my drink. So we go outside - to sit or stand in all weathers. Invariably, more than half the customers are already outside. Sometimes all of them. They are not necessarily smokers but they DO like the company of smokers. It's often crossed my mind that what was once a very convivial job - that of being a barman - is now a lonely boring chore. Have a look at the barman's face next time you buy a drink before escaping to the merriment outside.
By choice, however, I never go into a pub these days.
Margot Johnson wrote, "Never, in the history of brainwashing, has there been a campaign as successful as this."
Very true Margot, and very scary. I saw the beginnings of it in the mid-1970s while working with antiwar activists here in the U.S. I was amazed and horrified to see how easily they swallowed the same sort of propaganda that they were fighting against on another front.
Michael J. McFadden,
Author of "Dissecting Antismokers' Brains"