Tuesday
Jan272009
Live blogging from Brussels
Tuesday, January 27, 2009 Dick Puddlecote is writing a rather good live blog of the TICAP/UKIP conference HERE. At its best this is what distinguishes blogging from most - possibly all - other media. It can provide an instant record of current events, including conferences like this which are unlikely to be reported by the mainstream media. Anyone with a laptop or mobile phone can do it, so it's very democratic. It's also strangely addictive ... help!
Reader Comments (19)
Thanks for posting this Simon, it's great to be able to read what's happening as it happens.
Yes, thanks so much, Simon. An unexpected surprise and delight. Have tried to post comment to Dick thanking him - but can't get through.
Thanks for the link Simon. It has been hectic and I've only just found time to come here and post the link ... but you'd found it already :-)
Margot. You can post anonymously, just click on the anonymous box and then put your name at the end of your comment.
Sorry, Margot. I just realised anonymous posts had been disabled by the template. I have opened it up for anons.
It is really great to see someone with so much dedication and optimism, as Dick Puddlecote.
Where would we be without people like him, who give so much hope to the rest of us?
But (there always seems to be a BUT, doesn't there?), what happens after the TICAP Conference? A lot of very fine people have put themselves out to go there, mostly at their own expense, and to put their money where their mouths are. They have spoken up for freedom, against a battery of ignorant, left wing extremists, who have the audacity to accuse them, of being in the pay of one industry or another.
It is these extremists who are being paid, not the freedom fighters. We have allowed them a free platform, to spout yet more of their evil propaganda, yet these same people have banned freedom from being expressed in buildings, which we, as Europeans, partly own.
But you have heard all this spouting off many times before, we all know it, and we have all done it. The big question remains, what next?
It was very good of Dick Puddlecote to bring us up to date on the conference in Brussels.
I am spitting mad to see how much in cahoots the anti smoking lobbyists and pharmacuticle companys are with the unelected and unaccountable wankers in the eu, just making it up as they go along to keep themselves in jobs and to line their own pockets.
When you think of one company, Johnsons I think, saying they had donated 280million to the anti compaign and then admitting the profits for it were great, tells the whole story.
Thank god for TICAP and UKIP, I hope they never let up on these bastards.
Huge thanks to Dick Puddlecote for bringing the conference “live” to us; an inspired decision which increased attendance by hundreds. Congratulations to all who attended at their own expense.
Dick’s blog produced many comments and provoked some “anti” comments. Including the usual never-ending dispute regarding junk science and resultant statistics which are the basis of the ban. To me, notable among the quotes was the following: -
“ChrisW: Carbon monoxide from exhausts (not diesel particulates) are a cause of suicide. Crumbs, even Freedom2Choose's chairman, Colin Grainger, admits passive smoking can be deadly for asthma sufferers.”
Our spokesmen in the pro-smoking movement are all guilty of this sort of careless statement. Simon Clark repeatedly states that he admits there are dangers in smoking. Dave Atherton states that he believes it shortens life expectancy. Perhaps they do this as a sort of “sop”; a way of showing that they are reasonable intelligent people who can see both sides of the argument. I say to them that they should stop right now. There is absolutely no real evidence to back any such statement. If we tap into any part of junk science and the creative “statistics” it engenders, we give some credence to it This opens the way for the red herring of endless bickering and digression from the truth. We absolutely must not cherry pick among this morass of manufactured statistics.
Sufficient has been researched and written on the subject to show that we can believe the evidence of our own eyes. Smokers tend to live longer healthier lives and have little need for doctors and drugs. People who smoke tend not to get Alzheimers and Parkinson’s diseases. Smoking has been a health giving pleasurable part of life for centuries. The benefits of nicotine are well known to the medical profession and have always formed the base of Pharma’s prescription drugs. Pharmaceutical companies buy in as much tobacco leaf as cigarette manufacturers.
It is, and always has been, a commercial war waged by the pharmaceutical companies against the cigarette manufacturers. Smokers in general have little need of the medical profession and for this reason alone, smoking must be discouraged.
Not everyone needs to smoke. Not everyone needs to eat red meat. Not everyone needs to drink alcohol. All these needs are dictated by one’s own body and the choice should be ours. When the challenge is made that smoking kills, the response should simply be that it doesn’t. There is not a shred of real evidence anywhere. All is government [aka Big Pharma] propaganda.
This present recession has focused attention again on the loss of income and unemployment caused by pub closures. As a first step back towards sanity, let’s just concentrate on the economic and social necessity to reintroduce smoking rooms.
Well said Margot, I agree wholeheartedly with what you say, dont give an inch to the lying bastards and never throw them sops to say we see both sides of the argument, we should hold firm at all times.
They never give us the benefit of the doubt with their jack boot rules why should we. Because they know that if a chink ever appeared in their shaky armour the pack of cards would come tumbling down and the cash cow would be no more.
Sorry about the language but I'm driven to it.
Margot Johnson,
I dont recall ever saying that. I don't believe the statement is verbatim, and it is certainly used out of context.
The author of the comment, Rollo, continues to misquote me. He does it regularly. I think it is a misdirection technique he uses, but he uses it very badly.
Please Margot, don't believe everything these antis say without verifying it first.
In other comments he complains about posters using dated, or incorrect references. Someone really ought to tell him that I am not the chairman of F2C. I haven't been for nearly six months now.
For the record, I know that any adverse reactions from asthmatics (where SHS is concerned) is psychosomatic.
Margot
I agree totally, with the exception of the comment about asthma and passive smoke.No F2C spokesperson would think this, let alone say it.
When you use self-loathing, apologetic starting points, you will never have your voice heard. No wonder that in the years leading up to the ban, the 'challenge' was puny, and able to be ignored, ot at best ridiculed.
The TICAP member organisations, should now seek to reverse the damage done by previous week opposition to attacks on tobacco users, and go toe to toe with their opponents.
Margot
I agree totally, with the exception of the comment about asthma and passive smoke.No F2C spokesperson would think this, let alone say it.
When you use self-loathing, apologetic starting points, you will never have your voice heard. No wonder that in the years leading up to the ban, the 'challenge' was puny, and able to be ignored, ot at best ridiculed.
The TICAP member organisations, should now seek to reverse the damage done by previous week opposition to attacks on tobacco users, and go toe to toe with their opponents.
Colin Grainger.
Thank you very much indeed for clarifying that point. I think you are already aware how much I value your quiet steadfast informed comment. At least my pinpointing this has given you the opportunity to refute it.
This opportunity also exists for Simon Clark and Dave Atherton.
Dave quoted the Royal College of Actuaries as the source of his opinion regarding shortening of life expectancy. He quoted two different sets of statistics provided by them. As they differed, neither could be taken seriously. I pointed out that Actuaries are a useful aid to insurance companies. They do not, however, themselves research the statistics they quote. Their role is to sort through available statistics and present these to the customer. Statistics regarding the dangers of smoking are produced by "junk science" who take no confounders into consideration. [And that is putting it politely].
Thank you for all you do. This applies also to John Harris.
I am very flattered that Rollo and the anti smokers take me and other people in the pro choice moverment so seriously. I wish Rollo would state what his conflicts of interest are and whether he is an employee of ASH, DoH etc.
I investigated ASH's claims of 10 or 15 years for average smoking mortality and found them out to be misleading. Here is a study from Norway which suggests 2.7 years for men and 1.4 years for women. Can we make our mind up please.
http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/abstract/144/6/381
Dave Atherton.
Yes, I remember you quoting that one, Dave, and at the same time you quoted a second one from Norway which differed from it.
I'm sure you agree that quoting any of these junk statistics is not the way forward. Like Colin Grainger your quote can be taken right out of context and used by the anti brigade. Better, by far, to stick to the plain truth that there is absolutely no evidence anywhere to back up the 'smoking is harmful to health' myth.
Of course there are doctors who pronounce that a person's death was due to the fact that they smoked - or, even worse, that they previously had smoked. So many people have reported that their life-threatening illnesses began after they had given up smoking. Before even entering the "lists" we need to be certain in our own minds that nicotine has huge health and automatic internal healing benefits. A forced withdrawal from it also withdraws these benefits.
It is very easy for the medical profession to blame a death on smoking. However, there is STILL no evidence to back this up. A person will decide to stop smoking, or cut it down, if their body tells them that this would be good for them. The same applies to eating and drinking.
As you have said yourself, there are so many confounders it is impossible to single out smoking as a cause of illness. Better to stay well away from quoting these creative statistics - even if it is to prove that they are at variance with each other. [Which you are very good at - I may add!]
On the subject of life expectancy; since when has anybody been able to look into the future and predict when they or amybody else is due to die? [No answer needed!]
Margot, I will try and give a full reply later. I am suffering a bit from TICAP exhaustion. 12 hours sleep over 3 nights, two hours sleep last night, done a days work and at 17.41 I am off down the pub to for a mates birthday.
If you want Margot you are welcome to drop me a line on daveatherton20@hotmail.com
Could anyone tell us what happened next? Were you able to go into the EU parliament building after the TICAP conference ended? What did you see going on in there?
Thanks.
Yes, we did. They have a very comfortable 'Smoking Room' in there, conveniently situated next to one of the bars.
One rule for them ...
This is the same EU that wants to introduce a draconian, uniform tobacco control policy throughout EU member states in the not too distant future...
They can get away with having a smoking area while they can argue that each member state enjoys 'sovereignty', but if they impose a uniform ban they quite simply can't. Is the uniform ban just talk? If it isn't will there be people making sure that the EU adheres to it and if it doesn't, what action can be taken?