Simon. Regarding your earlier article 'Smoking, food and sex'. I've been waiting to read about the 'sex' and was very amused by Trevor Baylis's comparison with smoking. The food looked very appetising.
Ms Merron refused to admit that it was her party, Labour, that introduced the ban. She said it was an all-party vote and therefore all parties introduced it after “the trade” as well as “ the majority of constituents” said they wanted it.
Having made this wretched law, Labour MPs now appear to be in denial about having done it. But, given the Labour majority in Parliament would it have made any difference if opposition MPs had all voted against it?
In the vote to consider the smoking ban amendment, 452 MPs voted for the ban, and 125 against. Of the 452, 304 were Labour MPs. Even if the remaining 148 opposition MPs had voted against it, pro-ban Labour MPs would have still outnumbered the opposition by 304 to 273.
In the vote to extend the ban to private clubs, 384 MPs voted aye, and 184 no. Of those that voted aye, 278 were Labour MPs, and 106 opposition MPs. If all opposition MPs had voted no, anti-ban MPs would have prevailed by 290 - 278, but only a half dozen anti-ban Labour MPs changing their votes would have have secured a pro-ban victory.
In the vote to insert the new clause into the Health Bill, 413 MPs voted aye, and 129 voted no. Of those voting aye 297 were Labour MPs. If the remaining 116 opposition MPs had all voted no, pro-ban Labour MPs would still have prevailed by 297 - 245.
So, no. This was a ban proposed by a Labour government, and made law by Labour MPs, over 90% of whom voted for it. Even if all the opposition MPs present had voted against it, it would still be law.
Idlex I agree. It's definitely labour's legislation. They even refer to it as one of the best things that this labour government has done! You'd think by now that they'd be looking for a scapegoat to blame it on before it's too late. It's beyond belief that they are so blind as to what is happening right under their noses.
They'll be on the opposition benches for a long time, because I, like many millions more like me, will never forgive them for this
I remember on July 1st last year hearing quite a few Labour MPs glorying in what they had done and calling it {paraphrase} "the best thing I've ever been involved in since becoming an MP" "the most significant improvement to public health ever" and other ways of saying that they cared not a jot about smokers. It struck me as their treating me like a non-person then and still does now. I won't ever forget and will tactically vote against Labour till my dying day. Their only hope now is a reversal of the law or a massive amendment and an admission that they got it horribly wrong.
I don't pay £20,000 a year income tax (and hounded for it 12 months before my company has even earned it!) to be completely ignored as a human being.
There was also a health department minister who left office or was moved and said the same thing a few months later - something about the Health Act being their "biggest achievement". They gloated about a law that they were told was universally popular as they believed the ASH propaganda that even smokers were right behind it. How naive can anyone get? Let alone MPs who are supposed to be wise and thoughtful. This Government are probably the most inept fools the country has ever had the misfortune of being governed by.
The good thing is that I will be a very old man vefore they ever take office again. Let's hope the Tories are watching and registering the smoker backlash. If they act on it, they could be comfortably in office for the next couple of decades.
I was watching earlier this evening a documentary about the founding of the NHS 60 years ago, and still thinking that it was a good thing. A lot of people who went untreated before it began to receive medical attention.
Good health is certainly a good thing. But people can also have too much of a good thing. Back in 1948 the benefits of medicine were extended to a lot more people, a lot of people who wanted it. But here in 2008 we're now having good health stuffed down our throats, whether we want it or not. We live under a veritable tyranny of health. It's no longer just one thing that we want. It's the only thing we're allowed. It takes precedence over everything else.
Most likely all those MPs who feel so proud of the smoking ban like to imagine that they've done something that was morally equivalent to the inauguration of the NHS. In a way perhaps they have, but in the opposite sense. The moral equivalence was that the smoking ban was a long step towards insanity, a long step into absurdity, just as perhaps the founding of the NHS was a long step out of another kind of absurdity. The smoking ban was the point where it all became too much of a good thing, and started becoming a really bad thing.
If the NHS is going to be destroyed, it will likely be through this tyranny of health. If people once desperately wanted to be able to visit a doctor, it's now that people desperately want to escape them.
Friday, July 4, 2008
Reader Comments (6)
Simon. Regarding your earlier article 'Smoking, food and sex'. I've been waiting to read about the 'sex' and was very amused by Trevor Baylis's comparison with smoking. The food looked very appetising.
Ms Merron refused to admit that it was her party, Labour, that introduced the ban. She said it was an all-party vote and therefore all parties introduced it after “the trade” as well as “ the majority of constituents” said they wanted it.
Having made this wretched law, Labour MPs now appear to be in denial about having done it. But, given the Labour majority in Parliament would it have made any difference if opposition MPs had all voted against it?
In the vote to consider the smoking ban amendment, 452 MPs voted for the ban, and 125 against. Of the 452, 304 were Labour MPs. Even if the remaining 148 opposition MPs had voted against it, pro-ban Labour MPs would have still outnumbered the opposition by 304 to 273.
In the vote to extend the ban to private clubs, 384 MPs voted aye, and 184 no. Of those that voted aye, 278 were Labour MPs, and 106 opposition MPs. If all opposition MPs had voted no, anti-ban MPs would have prevailed by 290 - 278, but only a half dozen anti-ban Labour MPs changing their votes would have have secured a pro-ban victory.
In the vote to insert the new clause into the Health Bill, 413 MPs voted aye, and 129 voted no. Of those voting aye 297 were Labour MPs. If the remaining 116 opposition MPs had all voted no, pro-ban Labour MPs would still have prevailed by 297 - 245.
So, no. This was a ban proposed by a Labour government, and made law by Labour MPs, over 90% of whom voted for it. Even if all the opposition MPs present had voted against it, it would still be law.
Idlex
I agree. It's definitely labour's legislation. They even refer to it as one of the best things that this labour government has done! You'd think by now that they'd be looking for a scapegoat to blame it on before it's too late. It's beyond belief that they are so blind as to what is happening right under their noses.
They'll be on the opposition benches for a long time, because I, like many millions more like me, will never forgive them for this
Mary. Labour listed their 50 best achievements and the smoking ban wasn't mentioned.
I remember on July 1st last year hearing quite a few Labour MPs glorying in what they had done and calling it {paraphrase} "the best thing I've ever been involved in since becoming an MP" "the most significant improvement to public health ever" and other ways of saying that they cared not a jot about smokers. It struck me as their treating me like a non-person then and still does now. I won't ever forget and will tactically vote against Labour till my dying day. Their only hope now is a reversal of the law or a massive amendment and an admission that they got it horribly wrong.
I don't pay £20,000 a year income tax (and hounded for it 12 months before my company has even earned it!) to be completely ignored as a human being.
There was also a health department minister who left office or was moved and said the same thing a few months later - something about the Health Act being their "biggest achievement". They gloated about a law that they were told was universally popular as they believed the ASH propaganda that even smokers were right behind it. How naive can anyone get? Let alone MPs who are supposed to be wise and thoughtful. This Government are probably the most inept fools the country has ever had the misfortune of being governed by.
The good thing is that I will be a very old man vefore they ever take office again. Let's hope the Tories are watching and registering the smoker backlash. If they act on it, they could be comfortably in office for the next couple of decades.
I was watching earlier this evening a documentary about the founding of the NHS 60 years ago, and still thinking that it was a good thing. A lot of people who went untreated before it began to receive medical attention.
Good health is certainly a good thing. But people can also have too much of a good thing. Back in 1948 the benefits of medicine were extended to a lot more people, a lot of people who wanted it. But here in 2008 we're now having good health stuffed down our throats, whether we want it or not. We live under a veritable tyranny of health. It's no longer just one thing that we want. It's the only thing we're allowed. It takes precedence over everything else.
Most likely all those MPs who feel so proud of the smoking ban like to imagine that they've done something that was morally equivalent to the inauguration of the NHS. In a way perhaps they have, but in the opposite sense. The moral equivalence was that the smoking ban was a long step towards insanity, a long step into absurdity, just as perhaps the founding of the NHS was a long step out of another kind of absurdity. The smoking ban was the point where it all became too much of a good thing, and started becoming a really bad thing.
If the NHS is going to be destroyed, it will likely be through this tyranny of health. If people once desperately wanted to be able to visit a doctor, it's now that people desperately want to escape them.