A message to smokers from Boris Johnson
Wednesday, April 2, 2008 A few years ago Boris Johnson (now an MP and a London mayoral candidate) responded to a letter from Forest with the following message of support. Smoking bans, he wrote, are a "classic example of Labour's bossy, hysterical, annoying approach. They should leave it to individual pubs and restaurants to decide. Vote Tory! Vote for freedom!"
Today, in response to a gentle enquiry about Boris's policy on the smoking ban, a reader received this email from the Back Boris campaign team:
Boris feels that the smoking ban has actually been implemented with very few problems. It was designed to ensure that workplaces are free from smoke so employees were not exposed to the harmful effects of smoke.
While Boris has some sympathy for smokers he does support the law. If there is anything else you would like to bring to our attention, please do not hesitate to get back in contact with us. It is vital that we hear from Londoners about the issues that matter to them.
To put this in perspective, the mayor of London does not (to my knowledge) have the power to overturn national legislation, so the ban was never going to be a major issue in the forthcoming election. It is, however, disappointing to hear Boris abandon his previous position in favour of a disingenuous, Cameron-style response.
If you have any thoughts on the matter you can contact the Back Boris team HERE.
PS. If I lived in London I would still vote for him. Anyone but Ken!
Reader Comments (176)
Either Boris did not know he did not have any authority to overturn the ban, in which case he is just a fool, or he did know but encouraged smokers to vote for him anyway based on what was just a cynical lie. Perhaps he invented "policy" while on Room 101 and then was told by his own people that this was not a good idea and has since changed his mind. Perhaps, as I suspect, he has no say in these things (hence his total lack of interviews at the moment for fear he will put his foot in it) and in fact all his policies and everything he says is dictated by conservative central office. This is perhaps the worst of them all, because Londoners are being conned into voting for a "personality" when actually he is totally out of touch - not just with most ordinary Londoners - but also with his own campaign!! if you can't stomach Ken - vote for Brian Paddick for pity's sake!
Whilst not agreeing with the views expressed in the email, regarding the smoking ban, if you look carefully, the message did not actually originate from Boris personally, but from his campaign team.
Campaign teams, as we all should know, are notoriously dim witted, whether they be Conservative, Labour or whoever. They answer queries, verbatim, taken from a general list of do's and dont's, and yes and no's.
To be perfectly fair to Boris, can you imagine the flack he would attract from Ken's team at this point, if he dared say that he was in favour of amending the ban? Not that he, as Mayor, would ever have that power. But just for Boris to show being in favour of it, would score points for his opponents.
Surely, the person who sent him the original email, asking for his views, must have known that the Mayor of London does not have this power? So why did this person ask then?
I have noticed of late, that there seems to be an infiltration on these boards of posters, who are doing their utmost to discredit the Tories in every way possible.
We all know that in a few weeks time, we have the local elections as well as the Mayoral election, and we also know that the Conservatives are poised to overthrow Labour in almost every seat. We also know that smokers are gradually getting it together and are now being considered a very formidable force to be reckoned with.
Could this anti-Tory backlash, aimed very carefully at smokers, be a part of Labour's plan to destroy the unity which we are now seeing amongst smokers?
I say we should take these little snippets of "dis-information" with a very large pinch of salt.
Boris is a cigar smoker himself, and unfortunately does not have the power to change the law, full stop.
Seems to me that Boris took the queen's shilling to get into power like the rest of the power mad govt so his joinging his own kind,what all these yes men,who promise the stars until they get into office need, is a sharp shock from the electorate therefor people should vote for the fringe parties like the BNP, its the only thing that will make them take notice once they see their power slipping away from them. How come people have a choice on the continent, we were in spain recently and it was a pleasure to be able to smoke in comfort and they have smoking and non smoking areas and everyone seems quite happy with it, we dont go to pubs or restaurants any more since the smoking ban, so we are able to go abroad more often where the word civilized has a meaning. How come england, ireland, scotland and wales are the lap dogs of europe, when the EU snap their fingers they cant wait to jump to their commands, makes you wonder who's appointing who into govt in said countries or what backhanders they're receiving for putting in these draconian laws!!
Peter, the email was prefaced by the words: "Boris has asked me to reply on his behalf."
Simon, of course the email was prefaced by the words: "Boris has asked me to reply on his behalf."
All replies from politician's offices, are worded that way, so as to give it the "personal touch" but we all know that the politician concerned has never even seen your letter or email. If he had done, then the reply would have come from him, not from some "student" working for his team.
And by the look of the posts now being received on this subject, I was 100% correct in my thoughts regarding the infiltration and disinformation now taking place here.
P.S. When I said "posts" I was referring to another one which has since disappeared
Peter, although Boris may not have seen the enquiry, he must surely have outlined his views on the subject to his staff. They must be working with his authority?
Why on earth would he outline his views on the smoking ban, when he will not have any control of it?
We might just as well ask him what his views on coal mining are.
Peter, no-one has "infiltrated" this site. This is an open forum. Everyone is welcome here as long as their views are not libellous, defamatory or unnecessarily foul-mouthed or abusive. I did delete a comment but that was because every word was written in CAPITAL LETTERS which I try to discourage. The author has been invited to re-submit his comment in upper and lower case!
What I mean by infiltration, Simon, is that I believe certain posters on here, are masquerading as pro-smokers, pro-freedom lovers, when in actual fact, they are just the opposite, sent here to stir up trouble within this community.
There isn't anything anyone can do to combat this, as you so rightly point out Simon, it is an open forum. But I do urge everyone to look at what is being written very carefully, and to think about the implications involved.
Blimey, Peter, that sounds a bit paranoid, if you don't mind me saying. Isn't it good that you're getting people of different political persuasions all contributing to this forum and fighting against the ban, instead of it being a Tory smoking-shop?? I personally haven't seen anything that has remotely appeared to be people masquerading as pro-smokers and pro-freedom lovers while pursuing another agenda. But then, perhaps I'm on the suspect list :-)
But they are not fighting against the ban Rose, they are fighting each other.
And while they are doing that, the ban goes unoposed.
The response from 'Boris' (or whoever in his office) is very disappointing and it is good to see Simon's analysis/reminder of what Boris apparently said in the first place about the ban. It still comes back to a massive PR and advertising campaign from govt. which has become entrenched. The genuine options to preserve our adult choices, such as air conditioning and staff-free areas (both of which would even now be saving 27 pubs a week from closure arguably) have been denied us.
While it may be true that a London mayor would not have the power to overturn the law, the role does carry considerable weight for an opinion. I often wonder to what extent the present incumbent affected the climate and the legislation we are now saddled with.
It still comes down to money for an advertising and PR campaign every bit as compelling and effective as the ones we have had to suffer over the last few years from the NHS. Saatchis could sell anything, and their tv campaign of tiny infants inhaling smoke, and smiling, just about did it I would say. It's all clever, emotive stuff which screens out adult decisions and solutions in favour of propaganda. Where is our money, and our budget, to present some proper facts about real choice for a legal activity? Answers on a postcard please ..
Rose, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you :) Whilst I take Simon's point about it being technically impossible to infiltrate a public forum I also take Peter's point as well, though not sure if I believe it.
To the story. With this coming in the wake of Cameron saying "he's put the ban behind him" the Tories are starting to look like their old selves. There's no principal or policy they won't discard in order to secure votes.
This begs the question of what else will they toss aside effectively on a whim.
I suspect that if they win the next election it'll have more to do with Brown's incompetence than Camerson's leadership.
I have to say that modern politics is in a dire state. The mainstream parties all seem equally crap with them all comfortable with continually extending their power into our daily lives.
Boris, or no-one else is going to be able to overturn/amend this Smoking Ban Experiment while the likes of WHO/ASH are afforded front page headlines from the MSM every time they choose to tell another falsehood. Not ONE media outlet has chosen to challenge these organisations. The MSM has a lot to answer for in the demise of this country's freedom & liberties, they've become a compliant industry.
If truth be known the SBE came in on the back of PERSONAL DISLIKE of smoking & smokers, together with unrelenting propaganda from many pseudo scientists, dishonest surveys and a willingness of the very gullible public to believe them. And let's not forget the ugly hand of the EU in all this, if our lacklustre, spineless politicians hadn't fallen in line the EU was going to introduce legislation to force the SBE.
Poor Boris will be vilified from on high within Labour whether he supports the SBE or not, Brown, Livingstone & co., will make sure he is.
Personally, whether Boris supports the SBE or not is immaterial, he can't change it. I just want that parasite Livingstone OUT of office.
Brown & Co., must go.
I think the only infiltration that is happening, is the infiltration of Governments and the EU by the anti-smoking crusaders. They know exactly how to achieve their aims, and have taken the right course to obtain as much power as possible, and that is indeed hard to fight. The truth about passive smoking MUST in some way become public knowledge for that power to be destroyed.
Boris has also been indoctrinated by the relentless Healthists, after being shown black diseased lungs he said it had a shocking effect. Obviously he wasn't told that it could have come from a non-smoker,That would have been against the doctrine. They target the intellectually vulnerable politicians with such propaganda all the time, so it's little wonder that most of them follow the word, as they have few ideas or opinions that come from their own minds.
It's because of this bombardment from the 'experts', that it would take a very brave man to stand up and challenge them, without some real backing. I don't see a politician with ANY guts at all at the moment. They are all fodder for the 'fanatics' who must be feeling that they can do whatever they like.
Public awareness of the fraud, and real pressure from the hospitality industry, may gather some support in politics, but it needs a great deal more effort by those who have access to the media. The media can change everything, and once politicians feel a weight of opinion on their side, it's amazing how brave they can suddenly become!
Peter,
You can include yourself within your assumption that this site is being infiltrated by supporters of various political parties giving disinformation. You consistently state that the Tories are gaining support. Almost like the famous press release from the EU which followed the meeting Simon went to, which advised editors to keep on saying the same lies over and over again and then people will believe them. Which is what has happened, of course.
I've seen no evidence on this free unbiased forum that the Tories are gaining support as an opposition to Labour. What I have seen is ever increasing disgust that all three main parties have little to choose between them and people are looking seriously at the "fringe" partes instead.
Fortunately you are free here to say anything you like, within reason, and so is everyone else.
Readers of this site are not stupid and are perfectly capable of discerning what is or is not true for themselves. What certainly is true is that we are being governed by the EU and that this will continue within government by all three major parties.
I am confident that people will, as I have done, look closely at the structure and what is being offered by the "fringe" parties. I certainly hope they will not just randomly vote.
I went to my first meeting to have a look at UKIP last night. I was very impressed by the intelligent moderate people there. They have a Newsletter which includes, among many other things, the proven fact that in October 2006 the South East of England, including the whole of London was put under the leadership of an unelected Frenchman called Alain Le Vern and now, bit by bit, he controls the region from the Arc Manche Head office in Paris. Other regions of England will be controlled by other parts of the EU.
It really is worthwhile to have a look at UKIP for yourselves.
I looked also at the BNP website and found that not only do they three times mention on their present front page that pubs are the bastion of the "white working man", but also that they are in favour of bringing back capital and corporal punishment, etc. So - mot for me!
Each individual should look closely at what alternatives are on offer and put their own weight behind them.
Well said Joan, I totaly agree with you.
The paranoia which some posters talk about is not coming from me, but from themselves.
Boris cannot effect the ban, so why is everyone getting so paranoid about him?
"Boris wants to see a repeal of the smoking ban". Ken Livingstone was quick to leap on Boris' latest gaffe, saying "obviously the Tories do not give a toss about the health of bar staff or non smokers, typically Tory selfishness". "Boris may go on about freedom but all he wants is more ill health.". Brian Paddick also joined in saying "Smoking is a nasty, unhealthy habit and if you vote for me there will be no review of the smoking ban if I am in charge".That is my take on how the media battle would be played out, albeit at my pretty basic knowledge level of spin and PR. Boris is on a hiding to nothing and would take a brave politician to say otherwise. A Tory only has to praise Enoch Powell and gets sacked.
Peter, for what it's worth I don't think you're paranoid, but some obviously are, and I think it may just be a side effect of the big brother state we now live in, people have become so indoctrinated to the 'state knows best' ideal that they're actually frightened to voice their real opinions in case they're accused of some ism or other. As a nation in the last decade, the majority have become so used to the Champagne Socialists ruling the roost, to the detriment of freedom, choice & civil liberties, for the majority they now just automatically tow the line without voicing any kind of dissent, they're too afraid of an on-the-spot fine, penalty charge etc. Trying to get support from politicians for the SBE to be repealed/amended is akin to asking them to forego their expenses. Smoking is now unfashionable, and to buck the trend is likened to heresy.
OT - on listening to Harmon on PMQs today I think I can safely say that within the not too distant future they'll be taxing bottled water. One of the Labour stooges stood up and said that we should all be drinking tap water to save the planet, it's gone from bottled being best to it damaging the planet. Enter tax on bottled.
Those who still think that Labour are for the workers are living in cloud cuckoo land. The vast majority of politicians from all parties, are cut from the same cloth, but these incumbent freaks are the worst in living memory.
Peter, you seem to be missing the point. Everyone knows Boris can't personally repeal/amend the smoking ban, but what matters here is that Boris is something almost unheard of nowadays, a popular politician,and I think it's a terrible shame that one of the very few libertarian politicians who had been prepared to speak out for smokers should now appear to be toeing the 'party line'.
Well now that Boris has become politically correct like the rest of them he has gone down in my estimation. Conservatives are proving that they are no better than Labour when it comes to Freedom, I sharnt bother voting for any of the main political parties they are all a waste of time.
I do agree with you Ali, but I still think the original writer of the question to Boris, was some sort of plant, whether against the pro-smoking lobby or just against Boris and the Conservatives, is up to debate.
But the question was just so riddiculous that it does need questioning.
I have just seen Charlie's post and I think it proves my point without any doubt.
If anyone knows Boris please tell him smokers are doing something legal [and heavily taxed] yet we are treated worse than murderers and other vile criminal people. At least give us three walls on our shelters.
Cheers.
Three walls won't do it for me Amanda.
I want four. And a roof. And I want to sit inside like a human being. I will not be put outside like an animal. I want my dignity back. I want an end to the lies. I even want the liars punished. I have compromised enough over the last thirty years. The persecution ends now. Your own persecution will only end when you make it so.
Let go of any guilt or shame you may be harbouring.
You have done nothing wrong. You are not a leper. You are not a pariah. You are not stupid. You do not stink.
All you did was to make a different lifestyle choice.
You do not cost more to treat than a non smoker. In fact, of the three groups, non smokers, smokers, and the obese, smokers cost the least.
Non smokers cost the most.
That shouldn't surprise anyone.
The fact that Boris has no 'power to overturn the ban' is surely not the issue ?
If Boris were - once elected - to express his personal opposition to the Ban - then he would be the first high-profile figure in public life around whom intelligent and constructive opposition could gather.
Inter alia, he could use his office to stimulate a GENUINE debate within London,use his media contacts to educate the Dosy British Public as to the scientific fraud perpetuated by the Antis, and press government for presisely those changes in the law we all so desperately seek.
A great opportunity will have been lost to raise the banner of Freedom - first in our Capital, and then throughout our Nation (and I'm sure that it would raise the morale of more than a few New Yorkers, too.)
I find his APPARENT surrender to the agenda of the Mad Controllers somewhat depressing, therefore.
Depressing - and so very, very sad..............
why bother voting for any of these people.they are al part of the same evil system
Peter, I don't wish to hurt your feelings but you are, to some extent, loosing your sense of perspective. I am certainly not a die hard lefty infiltrator but share a view held by very many that the three main parties are much of a muchness in being unrepresentative and toeing a PC line. I shall, subsequently, not be voting for any of them but continue with UKIP for two good reasons.
1) They are committed to a referendum on the EU constitution and, more than that, intent on persuading us to withdraw from that appalling institution too. Two selling points for me already.
2) They are committed to giving everyone freedom of choice where smoking and non-smoking are concerned and their clear cut libertarianism is another selling point.
If ever there was a need for a major revolution in British politics the time is now. However, where fighting each other is concerned I don't see much of it, but just the intelligent question being asked amongst freedom lovers of who to vote for. From a smokers' perspective, as far as I am concerned, if the major parties want my vote then they will have to make concessions of suffer for it.
I appreciate you are dyed-in-the-wool Tory but the majority of the population aren't any more than they are died-in-the-wool Socialists or "lefties".
I shall, just to make my position absolutely clear, not be voting for Nu-Labour or the Tories and the reason why I have discounted the latter is because they are showing themselves to be high on ambition but low on principle. Cameron is not going to be an inspiring leader but yet another brick in the wall I'm sorry to say (wish I was wrong) and my prediction is that he will bend over for Europe like yet another turkey voting for Christmas.
I would like to see the post made by Colin above delivered as a speech in the house of commons.
In fact, that little piece of writing has succinctly put what we should all think.
I know where he's coming from, it's a pity none of our MP's realise the damage they have done with this dangerous legislation.
Not only have they destroyed many peoples social lives and busineses, they have also caused untold damage to the human spirit.
The human spirit is something so fundamental to good health that to have it chopped down by wave after wave of smoker intollerance is just so cruel and one wonders why this is tollerated in our so called "diverse" society?
Mental health, business failure, massive fines for pub owners, the name calling, the wearing down into compliance,
None of these things matter to these weirdos of society that form the anti smoker cult. They are the ones who should hang there heads in shame with guilt and not us!!!
James, It may be "an evil system" but it's the system we're stuck with and if we succumb to apathy it could become a lot more evil.
At the risk of being considered a plant and with reference to the more general discussion that has been raging about voting in the forthcoming elections, I intend to vote for a fringe party if a candidate is available in the hope that sufficient numbers of others doing the same will weaken the position of the party that gets into power. If the disenchanted don't turn out to vote only those with a vested interest will and we'll have the same old,same old but worsening.
I dont know how Boris Johnson can oppose the smoking ban one minute and then support it the next Just goes to show you how thes so called MP's can change their minds so easily. If Boris Johnson thinks the smoking ban has been a success, then i sugest he visit all the local pubs and clubs in his area and ask smokers how they feel about being put outside.He is obviously been told to toe the party line. Why is it that not one MP has critised this smoking ban are they afraid they may lose their cosy little job with their huge expense forms. If its true they are still allowed to smoke in the bars at the houses of commoms there must be some smokers that could speak up for us why are they afraid? and why are they not put out side to smoke like the rest of us are. UKIP isnt against smoking they will leave it up to the owner or proprietor to make up their own mind if they wish to have smokers inside.They need your support.
Pat, MPs aren't allowed to smoke in the House of Commons. As I understand it, the building is exempt because it is a royal palace but it was decided that everyone disregard that.
There was a rather nice little report in the papers recently that Caroline Flint was "forced" to move offices because ETS was wafting into her room from the group of smokers standing outside. The irony was, no doubt, lost on her.
Just posted this on Boris Johnson's site:
http://www.backboris.com/contact.php
I am sorry to see that Boris doesn't get out more. At least, that's the impression he gives when he says that the smoking ban has been implemented without much problem.
The ban has devastated whole sections of the pub trade plus bingo halls and many clubs, added to which it is the result of a bad law brought in on the back of a lie, that being, that secondary smoke, in the quantities in which we normally experience it, is a deadly toxic substance. It's not, and has someone who has studied the content of road fuels for a public inquiry, I can tell you that the EU permitted exposure levels for certain substances such as carbon monoxide and a number of others completely cancel out the 2006 Health Act.
I'm afraid Boris has just demonstrated that that he has allowed his integrity to be over ridden by ambition and as opposed to proposing a fair deal for all, he has become just as precious and untrustworthy as New Labour.
It is time to stop making a fool of the British public by repeating lies and as the country deserves better. Our forefathers fought two wars for freedom - a legacy now lost by weak and unscrupulous politicians amongst which Boris also takes his place.
Colin, thanks for your response. My three walls remark was tongue in cheek, I feel very much as you do though I hope you are not as depressed as I am. I have hardly been out since July. This week I visited a friend in hospital where of course a visitor should not light up but there should be a place smoker patients can go. I was horrified to see a very elderly infirm male patient struggling outside for a smoke. He smoked just outside the main entrance, breaking the rules, but he could not have made the extra 100yds to be off the hospital grounds. Complete brutality.
Apparently smoking in the HoC is now not allowed, but who knows, they tell so many lies that a little thing like telling the public they've now banned it in the HoC will not worry them one bit, though some have been caught out smoking in the toilets. And then there's MaCLiar himself, having a shelter built for those that work/visit No.10. The public have been stitched up left right & centre to appease WHO/ASH/EU. The thing that really grates on me is that not only are smokers made out to be vile human beings they're also paying for the privilege of being told this by way of their taxes which fund these pernicious organisations WHO/ASH/EU whose personal dislike of smokers brought about the SBE.
I'm just glad I never voted Labour, I knew deep down that as soon as they were elected what would happen to this country, but I didn't realise just how bad it would be. Where I agree wholeheartedly with Blad is that Cameron will bow down as far as he can go where the EU is concerned, if they get elected he'll do the same as Blair/Brown, capitulate to Brussels. I've given him the benefit of the doubt many times, but his PC credentials are very off-putting. There seems to be something very odd that makes all those politicians that were anti-EU turn into staunch EU supporters after being elected.
No doubt, as has been said on here, Boris has no option but to tow the anti-smoking line because Livingstone will make it his mission to discredit him if he comes out against the ban while seeking to be elected. The best we can hope for is if Boris gets elected he'll make a stand and make public his opposition to the Smoking Ban Experiment, even if he can't do anything about it at least it'll be brought out into the open that not everyone in politics is scared of bucking the trend.
I'll be voting for Boris, I'd vote for a rat rather than see Livingstone back in. As to the general election, at present it's either UKIP or BNP. I just wish that Cameron would stop going on about his green credentials, drop his PC/EU stance, state that he'd repeal the destructive Human Rights Act, and consider amending the SBE. But it doesn't appear he'll do any of this or make life any easier for ordinary every day folk.
Sorry Boris, this post has been extended a bit. I would vote for you if I had a vote because I think you will bring a breath of fresh air once you have got past the PC hurdle.
Yes, Amanda, this is a most depressing time to be living in. We have no representation within the House of Commons and I am not just talking about smokers, but about the entire suffering population of what once was Great Britain. We do, however, still have the House of Lords. Goodness knows what will happen to that once the EU has "regionalised" us and we are controlled directly from the Continent. Meanwhile we still have a fighting chance - if we are prepared to fight before it is too late. I urge everyone to read the excellent speeches made by Lord Pearson and Lord Willoughby de Broke within the Lisbon/Constitutional Debate on Wednesday 1st April. These are the truths which you will never hear in the present House of Commons or in the equally strangled popular media.
Sounds like dull reading, I know, but I promise you it is rivetting stuff. Here is the link:-
http://www.ukip.org/ukip/index.php?option=com_content&task=category§ionid=20&id=63&itemid=87
A lot to type in, but well worth the patience.
I feel very disappointed in Boris Johnson.I didn't always agree with what he said, but I thought he was an eccentric and happy-go-lucky politician, not afraid to speak his own mind (and sometimes put his foot in it).Although sometimes he seemed a bit crazy, sometimes he actually made sense. With this smoking thing, either he's changed his mind on the subject - which I think unlikely, seeing he's a smoker himself and has earned himself a bit of a reputation for being against the nanny state - or he's caved into political pressure, which again disappoints and surprises me. Either that or he had no knowledge of what his campaign team was saying on his behalf. In which case he SHOULD have. It depresses me that colourful and maverick characters like him should suddenly become bland and boring and toe the line like everybody else.
Since Maggie Thatch made all MPs salary earners, this country has bit the dust.All politicians now are only interested in three things.... Me Myself and I. As recent events have proved it i.e Mr Martin and others.
I think that some investigative journalist should do an investigate on these NGO's like ASH and WHO to show where all the tax payers money is being wasted on the millions thats being spent on anti smoking anti drink and anti obesity etc advertising and which could be put to much better use on the front line of the health service where it is most urgently needed. I think its about time that these quangos should be disbanded and shown up for the useless organisations they are and who are only making jobs for themselves by thinking up new laws and punishments for the ordinary person to keep themselves in jobs at our expense. These set ups with their fancy titles are responsible for changing the culture of our country - england, scotland and wales and ireland, which makes one wonder if they are our new governments appointed by brussels to turn us into the united states of europe, they're already half way there with the open borders policy of our countrys and their sharia like laws of desimating our pub culture with their bans. On a final note what upsets me is that many people particularly older and those in rural areas do not have the luxury of internet communication for expressing their opinions or having their voices heard.
Is it any wonder that the pro-smoking lobby gets ignored by the politicians and the media? They only have to look at some of the forums around, and read the comments available.
David Cameron is akin to the devil, but wearing a green cloak instead of a red one. Boris Johnson is a lying fool, who has sold his sold to the devil. Gordon Brown seems to have escaped reasonably well, considering he was one of the original architects of the great smoking ban "experiment". Nick Clegg of course, has escaped completely, probably because no one knows who he is anyway?
But, who comes out covered in glowing angel dust? Why none other than good old UKIP, and why? Because apparently, UKIP local council candidate Robert Feal-Martinez, who is only a candidate, and not even an official UKIP spokesperson, has said that "his party" will allow more choice to licensees.
Having looked at their manifesto I don't seem to be able to find anywhere, any reference to the smoking ban, or the amending of it. Even their actual leader, Mr Nigel Farage, hasn't said anything similar to this. But that doesn't matter does it, as long as publican Robert Feal-Martinez has said it, then UKIP is worth voting for? I bet his beer is cheaper too.
It also doesn't seem to matter that UKIP were once accused of giving money to the BNP and of having contacts with a white supremacist group in the US. Or that they face legal action from the EU Electoral Commission to confiscate more than £360,000 of "impermissible" donations, or that in the past that they were accused of discriminating against a disabled man by banning him from fighting a target seat.
None of this seems to matter, as long as we keep the Conservatives out. But of course, there is yet another option which some say is worth looking at, and that is to vote for the BNP. Yes, it's true, some are actually saying this. Excuse me while I puke.
I am so pleased to announce that good ol' Borris has just stated this morning, the following
"You may have heard that the BNP have told their supporters to give the Conservative Party their second preference vote. I just want to repeat to you that I and the Conservative Party utterly and unreservedly condemn the BNP and have no desire whatsoever to receive a single second preference vote from a BNP supporter"
Now who says that Boris is not a man of his convictions?
A little P.S regarding the phantom enquiry about Boris's policy on the smoking ban.
Has anyone any news yet on who this person might be?
He, or she, seems to have kept a remarkably low profile, considering all that has been written about them.
i agree ann many old folk dont have internet access but they do read the papers. That is why i have emailed the SUN and the Mail, to argue at present this voting system is way out of date and unfair. Its about time we had a change to stop this two party system.If there is no candidate in your polling station from the party of your choice you cannot vote for that party. Its very unfair. Please write to the news papers and try to get them to see our point of view. We will never see a fresh new government until the system is changed. I want to vote for UKIP and i am hoping that there is a candidate in my polling station so i can vote for that party. They are not against smoking they feel it should be left up to the owner if he wishes to have smokers on his premises. UKIP need people to help their party they need funds and they need to let the country know what they are about. They also want us out of the EU so they have my vote. If we are going to be governed by the EU then i feel our politicians should have a wage cut like they would expect us to have. ( Less work)I want this two party system to stop and let other parties have a shot at ruling us and UKIP fits the bill.I am 56 years old and i have never seen such a bad party govern our once great country. Gordon Brown is pushing through all these new legislations and laws knowing that if he loses the next election he will still be governing this country from the back. Because David Cameron hasnt got it in him to change any unpopular polices this government has brought in. And the smoking ban is a good example. He used to smoke and because he wanted to quit he expects us all to want too. They are the worse kind X smokers. He is nothing more then a selfish man.But he wont mind taking the revenue it brings in the hypocrite.
There seems to be a 'clutching at straws' mentality developing on this site. The talk of voting for scum like the BNP is not going to help any fight for freedom. In fact any perceived connection of smokers-rights groups to extreme racist groups would be a disaster, and the media would love it!
This is downright dangerous for the fight against the fascist ideology of the anti-smoking crusade, and anyone with those tendancies, smoker or not, should realize that the roots of this fight is freedom for ALL, whatever their nationality or colour, and if you don't believe that then I suggest you quit smoking and join the Antis who may respect your Nazi principles.
Well said Zitori. Nice to see some sensible comments on here
Agree with Zitori, but I feel I should defend those who talk of voting BNP.
Personally I would never vote for them because they are a) fascists and b) a haven for over-politicised meatheads. I think that, whilst the best of them probably have an accurate understanding of Britain's democratic tradition, the worst of them have baseball bats. They would have no idea how to run the country and, in attempting to restore its heritage, would end up resorting to state-sponsored violence against the public - thus making the whole thing pointless.
But I think that what drives people to consider voting BNP is that none of the mainstream parties seem either able or willing to act on the various problems now facing Britain.
In particular, I think people are beginning to conclude that we lost more than we gained by the changes of the last 50 years. There is a growing "remembering" of the fact that Britain used to rule the world and be a haven for open-minded, INTELLIGENT debate. We made the best things, came up with the best ideas, and brought civilisation to almost every corner of the world. We used to have pride, a sense of identity, and stability.
All that is down the toilet now. We're a node of a bland Eurocracy and we're drowning in political correctness. The middle-classes are a pathetic laughing stock and the working-classes are either demoralised or have succumbed to chavvism. Meantime our media revels in shallowness and derides the intellectual, from Big Brother to makeover to the 6 o'clock news. Our heritage sites are being turned into stylised Starbucks and the V&A sells books about "how crap Britain is". And the humble English pub, staple of our heritage, is being systematically attacked. The BBC launches the Asian Network whilst noting that Radio 4 is "too white and middle-class" - as if that's something to be ashamed of. For most 20-somethings the choice is whether to get a job in a supermarket or a callcentre, and no matter what job you get, you'll be irrelevant and will be expected to attend mindnumbing "training days" to correct your thinking. Our education system is being revamped as a tool of State indoctrination and childhood no longer exists as we knew it - partly because of compensation culture and partly because of paedophile hysteria, which have together undermined "trust" and "community" in general. And I think all of these things lead one to ask: "If it's this bad now, what the f*** is it going to be like in 20 years?"*
In short we're not even a shadow of what we used to be as a country.
That is, I think, why reasonable people are tempted towards the BNP.
It's not just a question of whether to "be in" Europe or not. It's not even about how many immigrants to let in. It's a question of our entire national identity, at every level from parliament to culture to the street to one's own thoughts. Britain is disappearing and none of the mainstream parties seem able to comprehend the seriousness of the situation.
In fact, all of the mainstream parties seem intent on making the situation even worse. To support any of them is to support the dismantling of the country you used to know (and perhaps love).
That's why the only solution, if we're to get out of this historic mess, is a new era of politics involving new, maverick parties. Labour, the Tories and the LibDems are completely interchangeable and therefore useless. And don't get me started on the Greens.
* Bear in mind that the picture I just painted of Britain is certainly going to get worse when the Climate Change thing kicks in with full force. It will surely be used as THE ultimate tool to control the public and erase national identity.
I agree with everything you say Col.
And I think the vast majority of the population do as well, well at least the ones who still have the ability to think do anyway.
The ghastly way our country has slid downhill over the last 11 years is now the major talking point amongst almost everyone you meet. Gone are the days when the weather was all the English (yes I am going to use the word English, for it is what I am) ever talked about, now it is how are we ever going to get out of this rotten mess, and what lies around the next corner for us.
I understand what you are saying about the people looking to fringe parties in desperation, but what would happen if everyone did that?
Remember Screaming Lord Sutch? It's a wonder no one on here, isn't saying that they would vote for him, if his old mum said that he supported smoking.
The two party names which are getting bandied about, are the BNP and UKIP, neither of whom have ever said that they want the ban overturned or amended. UKIP does have one good thing going for it, and that is they want us out of Europe, but that is all. Nothing else they have said is even worth thinking about. As for the BNP, I think it would be more preferable to vote for Screaming Lord Sutch than them, and he is dead!
One hit wonder parties are absolutely useless. Who funds them? Unless they have some major millionaire backer, they are in deep trouble. How many people in this country would be willing to donate to these two?
My wife is head of fund raising for one of the biggest charities in this country, and I can tell you, from her experience, that raising funds for really good causes, such as she works for is so difficult, that she comes home some nights in tears, so can you imagine how difficult it would be for the little fringe parties like the BNP and UKIP? Without backing they are lost in the water, and that is exactly where they would dump us, alongside them.
I think we need to do more to let the main parties know what we want. If they are not listening to us, then maybe we need to shout louder. Keyboards don't exactly make a lot of noise on their own do they?
A well written article, Col Dee, but I am surprised that you have even mentioned the BNP as an alternative for people to consider. You did state that you wouldn't. personally, vote for it for several valid reasons including the blood bath which would ensue if any party now tried to force our established multi-racial society to become all "white" again.You did mention the obvious, that they probably wouldn't have a clue as to how to govern anyway.
I feel it is a bit late in the day to try to form a new "maverick" party and I am wondering whether you have looked at the present fourth largest party which is the United Kingdom Independence Party [UKIP]. I'd be interested to hear your views on it.
To me, they seem to meet all the criteria you outline in your post and are already doing sterling work on our behalf through their MEPs within the EU parliament. .
Their intention has always been that we should get out of Europe and become self governing again. They have two superb representatives in the House of Lords and on Wednesday 1st April,during debate on the Lisbon/Constitution Treaty, Lord Pearson was able to show, chapter and verse, that financially we would be well able to stand on our own feet. We would, in fact, be considerably better off. I've given the web link to his speech above on this present forum.
Their difficulty has always been that the "fringe" vote can be split up between various smaller parties. It came as no surprise to read in these present postings that the BNP have urged their supporters to vote Conservative as a second choice. They recognise that UKIP is a natural enemy and the obvious choice for those who sincerely want an independant self-governing United Kingdom.which would not tolerate racism and fascism in any form.
I'd be interested to read your views about UKIP. I am new it it myself - have I missed something?
"It also doesn't seem to matter that UKIP were once accused of giving money to the BNP and of having contacts with a white supremacist group in the US."
Peter,
You should know as well as anyone that being accused of something doesn't make it so.
If I accused all tory's of being drug addled kiddie fiddlers does that make it so?
I find it deplorable that an intelligent person like you should stoop to such tactics. I think you have had too much exposure to the likes of ASH that you are now utilising their methods.
Maybe time to take a step back and re-evaluate your morals.
Peter, I agree that it must be extremely difficult to set up (and then maintain) a new political party.
But if ever there was a time when new parties were needed, it's now.
And I think the difficulties facing small parties is itself reason to vote for them. Votes will encourage them to keep going, and help them to grow. For embryonic parties, votes are the best encouragement.
If the situation wasn't as it is, I would say it's a waste to vote for a small party because they're not going to get in. I'd say it's a safer bet to back one of the major parties. But the situation is so severe, and the major parties so useless, that I think the public need to engage in a long-term process to get rid of them.
If one cares about the long term, the responsible thing to do is vote for new, independent parties (accepting that they almost certainly won't get in) so as to nurture them and keep them going. With more votes, they may get more money to campaign with next time. And that'll get them more votes. And so on.
It's a long, drawn-out process but I think it's the only way.
The alternative is to vote for one of the main parties and tell yourself that they're going to change. They're not. They'll take us into Europe. They'll introduce ID cards. They'll increase bureaucracy and cripple education. They'll encourage the hellish PC atmosphere that is killing Britain's spirit. And they will absolutely continue to demonise smokers.
I think the problem with Labour, Tories and the LibDems is that, after so long in existence, and co-existence, they have reached a state of fossilisation. There is so much for them to lose that they daren't do or say anything remotely controversial.
Sure, you can't say that the Tories are a right-wing party any more than you can call Labour left-wing. But it's worse than that.
Is there anything about the modern Tories that you could say is consistently "un-Labour"?
Could you identify a characteristic of the current Labour party that consistently, marks them as being different to the Tories?
In other words, I think there's bugger all to choose between them.
THAT's why people don't vote. It's not so much the lying, the backhanders, the sleaze...it's the fact that it doesn't matter which of the three main parties you vote for: you're going to get the same sh*t, and the course Britain is on is not going to change.
Sure the small parties aren't going to get in. Of course they're not. But that's not the point - or at least it isn't for me.
The point is to revitalise Britain's political system and that can only happen by populating it with parties who have nothing to lose. We need parties who are not bogged down in dogma, routine, past precedents etc. We need politicians who don't have a career route set out for them. We need genuinely intelligent people who are "learning the ropes" and pioneering, following their beliefs and have a clear idea of what they want for Britain. We need politicians who are intelligent enough and interested enough to write their own f***ing speeches.
That cannot happen as long as the political arena is dominated by three parties who have, like tectonic plates rubbing against each other over decades, ground this country into dust.
The irony is I'm all for tradition. I hate the idea of the House of Lords being reformed etc. But re. the parties, tradition has to go out the window. Labour, the Tories and the LibDems are a weight around Britain's neck, killing it inside and making it docile to outside parties (namely the EU).
But on an optimistic note, I'm beginning to feel that I'm not alone. Socially I'm pretty much isolated because my friends all live in England and up here in Scotland the smoking ban makes going out a nightmare, so I don't get to talk politics very often. But as you say, Peter, there is a "vibe" of sheer disgust for the Government, and for our political system.
I think that the pace of change over the last 10 years has hit people deeply - so deeply that they have been unable to locate themselves politically. We've been swamped with political correctness and people have been afraid to speak out, speak their minds, claim their heritage back etc. And they're only now coming out of this daze and realising that something really MUST be done, because the big 3 parties are completely out of touch with the public.
To put it in a trendy soundbite, I think "voter apathy is reaching critical mass".
So that's why I think it's a good idea to vote for a committed, libertarian small party. It's not to get them in, but to lay the foundations for them to get in in the future and revitalise this dying country.
At the very least, if a lot of people vote for small parties it would give the big 3 a fright, make them see that their PC crap doesn't cut the mustard. Galvanise them into growing some balls.
I'm sorry I've rambled but there is just so much to say. To sum up, I think the big 3 parties have gone stale and need to be replaced, no matter how drawn-out the process, because Britain is anxious to reclaim its heritage and that might offend minorities and focus groups etc. which the big 3 will simply never do.