Labour loses another lifelong supporter
Friday, March 28, 2008 Further to my post HERE, a reader has written to her MP as suggested. It's calm, considered - a model of its type - and I thought I should share it with you:
I am a lifelong Labour Party member and have regularly campaigned for the Labour Party in Bedfordshire and London. I wanted to write to you to express my utter dismay at the way our Government has forced anti-smoking policies onto the nation. Incredibly, it is now proposing even more restrictions on the sale of tobacco.
I used to feel irritated when people talked about Labour and the “nanny state”, but now I can see they have a point. Providing information and encouragement to promote healthy living is one thing; riding roughshod over personal choice is another.
Although I believe the scientific case for the supposed health risks of passive smoking have been hugely overstated, I fully support the right of people in this country to not be bothered by other people’s smoke if they don’t want to be. A smoking ban that applied to just a proportion of premises (as happens in Spain, for example) would have been the fair way to allow those who don’t like smoke to enjoy a smoke-free environment, while not ruining the social lives of those of us who do, not to mention the livelihoods of many in the hospitality trade.
I believe you voted for the smoking ban so may have little sympathy with my views, but I wanted to urge you to consider the fact that the Government's anti-smoking policies have become a serious election issue. I can scarcely believe I am saying this, but for the first time in my adult life, I am considering not voting Labour anymore. I have an uncomfortable feeling that the power has gone to the Government’s heads and I worry about what is going to be banned next if Labour are re-elected.
Simon Clark
Another Labour supporter writes:
Having come from a family of Labour voters and trade union shop stewards, and having been named after Robert Owen and Keir Hardy, it is with great sadness that I have to say that I will not be voting Labour at the next election. I live in Islington South and Finsbury, the 2nd most marginal ward in the country, with a Labour incumbent on a 484 majority.
The complete ban on smoking in bars and clubs has devastated the pub trade as well as my social life and that of my friends and was a clear breach of the commitment stated in the Labour manifesto. This latest persecution is the last straw. Clearly the current incarnation of the Labour party cannot be trusted any longer.
Reader Comments (51)
I agree in every way with this post. The government is trying to say that the smoking ban is old news and that times have moved on. Well they certainly have not, and the implications are still being felt all over the country and will continue to be felt until an amendment is made.
I agree with separate smoking and non-smoking areas to allow everyone to socialise comfortably, but to brainwash the citizens of our country to push this legislation through is bordering on criminal.
One thing's for certain, the truth always come out in the end and someone will take the 'rap' for this. Remember the weapons of mass destruction in the build up to the Iraq war - they didn't exist.
It does concern me though that the repeated publication of false statements from the government and in the media can be used like this to push through any political agenda that the government so chooses.
We no longer live in a democracy and it is now frightening what the future holds.
I personally feel that the labour party have let down the whole of the working and middle classes who voted for them in the last election
and even went against their own manifesto pledge for a partial ban on smoking.I also feel that the Conservatives and the liberal Democrats are no better.
Not only do they not stand to their written word, they also obviously do not go out socially and see the many many people now stood outside pubs, clubs and other venues of social intercourse feeling like outcasts in there own country, or the many many venues that were just able to exist now closing, in effect they are crucifying the local communities and people coming together to socialise.
France, Germany and Spain to name just some other countries within the European Community have relented on this barbaric infringment on human liberties.
If it is to be implied that it is primarily lower classes that smoke perhaps the government will improve the many millions of peoples incomes to merely achieve the average weekly income per household as of the people i perosnally know for every one household on this there are at least 20 that do not get anywhere near it.
If it is a situation where they imply that the cost of looking after smokers illnesses is borne by the government let us see what would happen to the hospitals etc if the income generated from smokers was put into a seperate fund for their medical care alone. This will not be done as the existing National Health Service is very heavily subsidised by the smokers taxes.
Bring back sanity into the country and reinstate smoking and non smoking areas before it is to late, the exodus of people socialising has already begun and the supposed influx of people due to the ban comming into place did not and will not happen. Use common sense not bully boy tactics.
Let all MP`s live like theworking classes with only the income of the vast majority of these for 6 months lets see how they survive. Bottom line, they wouldn`t.
The problem with us as the British people is we are depend on government to point us in the right direction and we even let them demand we do as we are told, in other countries the people have united together and said enough is enough. In effect a few people are now telling the vast majority what they will do and when they will do it, they do not listen to the silent majority, even non smokers consider the ban barbaric as they also lose out as there local places of community activity close, thousands of these were only just surviving.
Well done the Government you have alienated the very people you are supposed to represent.
I to agree with every thing that has been said
above the goverment has lost contact with the people first hunting then smoking now drinking
when is it going to stop
these do gooders trying to rule our lives are
winning
don"t they think we can make our own minds up
what we want to do
I for one will not be voting labour ever again
and I have all my life
well now there locking the kids in school so they cant eat what they want
where is the freedom gone in this country
our pub has already gone a great community pup
this smoking ban is ruining peoples social lives no more labour for me
they tell us that the smoking ban is across the eu what about spain france and the rest of them I bet they dont take it as serious as our lot
has know one told the goverment we dont get
sunshine all year round why should smokers have
to sit out in the cold and rain when smoking is legal old pensioners fought in the war smoked all there life now they treated like lepers
there should be a choice smoking or no smoking
this country is finished no wonder thousands
are leaving
fed up being told what do and say
Yes of course,couldn't agree more. The problem is who's going to stand up and fight this kind of prohibition? Not Forest! far too timid and conventional in it's approach to the matter. I'm trying to find a far more radical outfit who can fight to make a difference, rather than treating it as some kind of new middle class "safe" hobby which seems to consist mostly of writing indignant letters. The people who fought to bring in this legislation are subversive and cunning. Forest just can't cut the mustard.
when this government get there own house in order and stop ripping the voters off any way they can to make a few bob
when the old and disabled are struggling along on a pittance while they spend more a day on expenses than others get a
week
when they get in the real world then they might
realise what they are doing to this country
RUINING IT
I also agree with most that has been posted, i will not vote for Labour again until i feel they are for the working class in this country,.
As i have said on this issue before, publish which MP,s voted for the smoking ban. Vote against them in the next election, which ever party they represent and then the nanny state will have no one to vote for stupid policies through fear of losing their seat at the next election.
I have voted Labour all my life but never again; I feel betrayed on so many issues but the continued attack on smoking is the final straw. I live in a typical working class area where I would say the majority are smokers. My local pub is now on the verge of closure, the Bingo hall is struggling and even the local Bookies is in danger! So much for creating jobs!
yes I agree with chic forest need to up there game to soft
Just wish there were another group out there
with the clout to make these D-HEADS listen
may be the next general election might bring some change
may be the bnp will make them sit up and listen
some things got to give or you will not be able to do anything
I WOULD STILL LIKE TO KNOW WHO PUT GORDON BROWN
IN CHARGE I NETHER VOTED FOR HIM DID YOU
he"s got a shock coming to him
the shortest term ever for a priminister
I beleive our primary problem is that we are as much to blame as anyone. We have allowed the do gooders to infiltrate into the managing system and now have a situation where the tail is wagging the dog with a minority telling the majority what to do and how and when to do it.
"I'm trying to find a far more radical outfit who can fight to make a difference"
Please let us know if and when you find this. I have not been to a pub /restaurant / cafe since July and feel like a hermit.
Still the less people that socialise the less chance of dissent. Perhaps that's the 'master plan'
You are absolutely right Ian, and the only solution is to vote this rabble out.
Vote them out in the local elections, and vote them out in the General Election, God forbid they should last that long.
The local elections should be a great testing ground. If we can get our message across that the party who promises to review and possibly amend this law, and is capable of doing so, is the party we will vote to power.
Have a look at this site http://www.thesmokermagazine.co.uk/
I think we would have a better chance of getting this ridiculous ban modified if it was not continually seen as an infringement on the working classes. I have friends across every social spectrum and every financial bracket and we are all smokers who have had our social lives turned upside dowm. I am considerably richer now having stayed in all winter rather than smoke outside but equally I do not want to see all our great pubs disappear - they must be allowed to choose. I too will never vote for this goverment again and am looking for an alternative.
I totally agree with everything that has been said,i live in Scotland and it was Scottish Labour that brought in the smoking ban here but they were kicked out at the next election after the ban.Coincidence?i think not,i used to go out every week for a drink now i stay at home and have a drink,i am lucky if i have been out 8 times since the ban 2 years ago it has ruined my social life completely.Its time we all stood up and be counted.
If anyone had suggested hiding cigarettes under the counter to deter youngsters from smoking, even five years ago, they would have been termed the lunatic fringe. Now the lunatic fringe is mainstream and it is called New Labour.
We need to damage them badly at the next local elections in May and show them the door when the next General Election is called. Sooner rather than later.
Labour lost me in 1997. I knew Blair was a liar who hated the working class. It was obvious. Unfortunately for Britian, others didn't see it until it was far too late.
There are, and were, too many lawyers in Government, including Blair and Cherie, who have damaged this country by running it like a court of law with various orders being made to force us to do as they want.
I was never taken in. It saddens me that others were and we are at the state we're in.
DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO VOTE OUT THIS GOVERNMENT but be very wary of replacing it with NuConservatism or illiberal liberal democrats. Send them all a message that we want our country back.
We want to be free, treated with dignity and respect, and we are fed up of being constantly lied to in the name of good health, national security or modernisation.
WE HAVE ALLOWED THIS LUNATIC GOVERMENT TO RUIN THIS COUNTRY AND OUR LIVES NOW FOR TOO LONG. THE SMOKING BAN IS AN ABSOLUTE DISATER, PUBS ARE VIRTUALLY ALL EMPTY AND CLOSING DOWN, AS ARE BINGO HALLS ETC ETC. WE HAVE ALLOWED THESE IDIOTS TO PROMOTE PROPAGANDA AND LIES. THIS LAW NEEDS AMMENDING ASAP TO ALLOW FOR SMOKING AREAS IN PUBS AND CLUBS THAT DO NOT AFFECT THE NON SMOKERS, AS IS ALLOWED IN SPAIN, GERMANY AND FRANCE ETC. THIS OUTRIGHT COMPLETE BAN IS AN OUTRAGE. I WAS ONCE A LOYAL LABOUR SUPPORTER HOWEVER I WOULD NEVER VOTE FOR THEM AGAIN EVER. ANY SMOKER WHO VOTES FOR THEM MUST BE AS CRAZY AS THEY ARE, BECAUSE THEY WILL NOT BE SATISFIED UNTIL EVERONE OF OUR PLEASURES ARE TAKEN AWAY FROM US. WHAT ANGERS ME MORE IS THE FACT THAT THE HYPOCRITES HAVE EXEMPTED THERE OWN COMMONS BAR FROM THE BAN ENABLING THOSE FAT CATS TO DRINK AT COST PRICE AND SMOKE IN THE WARMTH AND COMFORT. GET THESE MANIACS OUT OF POWER ASAP.
I agrre fully with this post when i was young i was always told that labour was for the working class and the rights of the working man but now they seem to be more bothered about them selfs and what else they can do to bring this country to it's knees and we are letting them get away with it one time we would have stood up to any government but not now people just want to moan and do nothing why can't they have non smoking rooms and smoking rooms in pubs and in B&B's and hotels and a room set aside for smokers in a place which holds say 100 people or more then put in ventalation in i know this would cost alot of money but you are going to get the money back because of the amount of people going there this is such a simple idea but iam forgetting not to this government they will not be pleased until they is not one pub lefted opened then they will be singing very lound from the song sheet
smoking ban thats the least of our problems dont get me wrong i`m a smoker myself and hate this labour government and the laws they have put on us , but beleive me this country is going to be very different to the one we know now in the next 10 - 15 years time they are already doing credit checks on every member of the public behind there backs ,the new passports now have a chips in them again without telling the public and then we have the id cards to come and dna testing of the people we are slowly moving to a big brother state ,the government are trying to condition the public to beleive and do everything they say and thus make a big brother state be affraid be very affraid
Don't be so afraid. That's defeatist.
Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.
If we are to make any progress in amending the ban, we must show a massive response at the May local elections and the London Mayoral elections.
If very little happens, all the parties will think they've got away with it - WE MUST NOT LET THIS HAPPEN.
We need to vote in such a way that the politicians will know it is the smokers who have martialled their voting power and kicked labour councillors out. (It's a shame for the many good labour councillors, but this battle is for the future of how this country is to be run and too important to be sentimental about).
Labour must suffer decimation at the May polls.
There have been various discussions on this site and others on how this might best be achieved, but one thing above all else is essential - we must unite in one common approach.
To get the message across to 10 million plus smokers and their supporters over the next month we need a coordinated attack from both Forest and Freedom2Choose - organisations that have the contacts and political knowledge - so far this has not materialised.
Chic Reid, Ron and Brenda raised the point that Forest was not radical enough and I agree that the time for them to get off the fence has come. Relaxed or even vituperative talking shops will not do the job needed. Action and direction is needed.
Forest and F2C, do not let us down.
Unless things change pdq, we will all need an improved leadership to spearhead this campaign.
UNITED, SMOKERS CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE
Individually, we'll get walked all over.
P.S. Why is this article headed by a red banner saying "vote Labour" - surely it should read "Stuff Labour" - a fleeting visitor might get the wrong impression.....
once again I agree with ian but where are the news papers on this like the sun for instance
I always thought they was for the working man
people say this is the paper that's decides elections
not so much as a column against it
I emailed the BBC about there biased coverage
as usual no reply
every thing they showed was for the smoking ban
anybody wanted to say some thing different got cut off
I do believe that they have been got at
there must be another way to show the feelings
of this country
no good talking to MPS they all live in a different world
AGAIN I SAY FOREST GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER
STOP PUSSY FOOTING AROUND AS IAN SAID YOU HAVE THE CONTACTS LETS SEE SOME SERIOUS ACTION
GET ON TO THE SUN NEWSPAPER SEE WHAT EXCUSE THEY CAN COME UP WITH
drink driving next
you won"t be able to have a tipple before bedtime incase your over the limit in the morning
ALL FOR NOW JUST FED UP WITH COUNTRY
JUST WISH I COULD MIGRATE WITH THE BIRDS
I have not voted for a few years, not really trusting any of them. I will definately be voting this year for any independant who stands up to repeal the ban. I am absolutely fed up!!!!. Whilst i agree there should be no smoking areas and ventilation. I see pubs closing all the time, how sad to loose this British culture. If all that is not bad enough this government policy is now having an impact on my place of work WHO ARE BANNING SMOKING BREAKS THE 1st Apri Agghhhh!!!
Ron
I agree, why, no media coverage, any one else any thoughts on this?
Hi Simon
Twice in one day, could Forest promote the e-petion to 10 Downing street regarding repealing the ban the We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to amend the smoking ban to allow a limited number of smoking licenses to be obtained by owners of pubs, restaurants and clubs from their local council. More details
Submitted by Bill Hayes – Deadline to sign up by: 23 October 2008 – Signatures: 3,565 on http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/smokinglicences/
Thanks
Julie
Why no media coverage? The TV stations, espescially the BBC, are very keen to be seen as perfectly 'politically correct' and see the smoking ban as a 'progressive step' for the health of the country, and so cannot be seen to be in any way against it, even if that means 'no reporting' of closures and all the other social impact of the ban.
They have been extremely careful not to give any exposure to opposition, and so give the impression that it doesn't exist. This is blatant censorship, and dispicable in this country.The cranks have become law makers, and anyone against 'Tobacco Control' have become cranks!
On top of this, pharmaceutical companies spend millions on advertising across ALL of the media, and being the main force finacially behind bans worldwide, the media moguls would not want to upset them!
I have been a labour supporter and indeed a labour councillor for 4 years. i have had many debates over the smoking ban in Scotland and all the U K to no avail no one listens.I was a occupational health nurse for W.D & H. O . WILLS many years ago and they produced a cigarette with no tobacco but were made to burn all of them as the custom and revenue could not charge on them as they did not contain tobacco so they came and stood over designated employees while millions of the tobacco free cigarettes were burnt.
Does that not tell us all something.
I firmly believe the public have been brainwashed over this and smokers have just taken it lying down.
Is there no fight left in us as we are not criminals but we soon will be if this goes unchanged.
I did enjoy the Freedom Dinner in the Savoy in London last year run by forrestI feel the time has come for us all to rebel and maybe just maybe they will listen I am a tee totaller and have been all my life and as a registered nurse for over 40 years and alcohol and obesity is a bigger threat to ill health.
I amm 66 years of age and still work so I am too old to die young leave me to enjoy my fag in peace and indoors
"Follow the Gourd".."Follow the Shoe".. It's all getting a bit like the Life of Brian, isn't it. Inevitable, I suppose.
We need an alternative party to vote for, if we want to make a statement against Labour - against all three main parties, actually - in the forthcoming council elections and as preperation for the next general election. Spoiling the ballot paper by writing "Down with Labour" or "No Smoke, No Vote", won't do it. These would end up in the wastepaper basket and not be seen by anyone.
But who to vote for? That is the question. The clearest message to all three complacent main parties,would be to vote for one of the smaller parties which does offer radical change. For us, repeal of the new smoking law, which is still in it's infancy,is of paramount importance. This extreme attempt at law making has roused a sleeping giant in us great unwashed, and could turn out to be a very good thing. It has brought sharply into focus, for the first time really, that we getting Orwellian government control into every aspect of our daily lives. I needn't list the dangers. They have been well documented on these pages. All three main parties seem quite content to continue to govern in this way. Why not? It makes an easier life for them in their exalted positions and with their safe comfortable salaries. Have you noticed how few MPs are ever actually in parliament. All we see on TV broadcasts are rows and rows of empty seats.
We need to support a party which intends to get us right away from the control and stranglehold of Brussels and, as can be seen on these pages, one which we have a hand in creating ourselves. Becoming independent of Europe can be done. Historically, we have done it twice already in recent years. First we stood alone against a united Europe during the Napoleonic wars - and won. Then we did the same against Hitler's united Europe - and won. Can we do it a third time?
Yes we can, if we make our minds up to it.
Mr Brown has now sold us to Europe. He did this behind our backs and without the promised referendum. We did not elect him into his position as Prime Minister, he elected himself. He has become a figure of ridicule, especially with his demented power-mad lady "Health" Minister by his side. Hopefully his will be the shortest term ever as Prime Minister and goodness knows what the batty woman will do for a living once she becomes unemployed.
Well, enough of that! We are looking for a new political party and a new leader. A new Churchill. Perhaps one will emerge, or perhaps it will just be a collection of dedicated people. No use hoping the timid Cameron will suddenly blossom and see the light. The mere thought of upsetting his traditional middle class supporters by coming up with even one radical thought, makes him go all pale and limp. Anyway, he is doing very nicely as he is, thank you very much. Why risk any change?
So what about the creation of this new political party? Much has already been written on these pages by very intelligent caring people. Many battle plans have been drawn up. Many strategies evolved. All have merit and all end up with the same question - who is going to lead us?
One rather sad fact is emerging and I am as guilty of this as any one. We are presuming that because Simon Clark et al have created this superb environment for us all to gather together in, it must follow that they are the natural leaders. Simon, in particular. At times he must despair at the amount of emails demanding a personal reply and the constant needlingm from all of us, for action rather than words. He never has promised such action. He never has inferred that he wishes to be the leader of a political party. He never has stated his decision to have a complete change of lifestyle and become a major politician rather than an astute campaigning journalist.
This has happened to me often in my own life. Give a yard and people eagerly jump on you and demand a mile.
Before asking more of Simon, let us look at what he has already achieved and continues to maintain. He has created the superb Forest organistation and website with all that it represents and achieves. He has created and daily maintains his own website, 'Taking Liberties'. He has created The Free Society website. He has created the infrastructure to maintain all these. He has linked them to other useful websites like Freedom2Choose and Numberwatch. In addition, he travels far and wide giving a visible presence and voice to the beleaguered smoker and all those who seek a fair just society. AND he is a non-smoker.
Let us honour him and give him thanks for all that he does do, and not demand that he becomes a politician as well. Let's leave him in peace to do what he does best - investigative journalism of the very highest calibre, broadcasting, lecturing, and the maintainance of these very valuable websites.
So who will create this new political party for us? I suggest that no one will. There are already too many gourds and shoes out there without adding to them. Why try to reinvent the wheel? Who among us really wants to dedicate the rest of their lives to this huge undertaking. The alternative parties already exist and the spadework has been done. It is up to us now to consider them carefully and choose which to follow and add our considerable combined expertise and weight to..
It doesn't matter that the one we choose is small. The Labour movement was very small to begin with. We can help it grow and if we really believe in all we say on these pages, we can make a difference. We can help form policy and see at ground level where its strengths and weaknesses and difficulties are. This is something we CAN all do. It's not glamourous or flag waving or anything of earth shattering importance, but it is a positive step forward. WE have written enough. WE need to move into a bit of action ourselves.
For my part, I've looked carefully at the small independent parties and have made my own decision. I like the look of the United Kingdom Independence Party [UKIP]. It's been going for some time and survived. It has several active MEPs - so is an organisation which has proved itself viable. I tracked down the South East Kent area organiser by email and he telephoned me. I liked the sound of him. He was a feet-on-the-ground intelligent hardworked chap. He is involved in trying to find 450 new candidates so that the whole of the UK can be covered when the election comes. He gave me the telephone number of my own area organisers. I telephoned them.They are gentle humerous people - a husband and wife team in their 70's, They had just come home from a leaflet drop. He said they would rather just be enjoying the hoped for retirement, but they have grandchildren and do not want their grandchildren to grow up in this country as it is now. They were people just like me. He invited me to their next meeting which is in the bar of a nearby hotel next Tuesday. I will go to this meeting.
That is my own small practical step forward. What will yours be?
Best wishes to us all.
I agree with everything that has been said. I urge everyone who has posted a comment to write to cameron and tell him we want our freedoms back. In yesterdays sun cameron was seen downing a pint of beer, what the difference between alcohol and cigarettes for a pleasure, in fact i would go as far to say alcohol is more anti social then smoking under that influence you can make people lives a misery. I hate this country so much i am thinking of leaving it. Cameron should be told we want our freedoms back or else they cannot rely on our votes. I would rather vote for popeye then vote any anti smoking government in. If we all give up smoking what would they do without our revenue. It will be cheaper soon to buy a shot of heroin. They say they put up the price for our own good what a load of rubbish, this government is no better then a drug baron, taking money from our addiction. As i said i hate this country i absoloutley hate this government with a vengence they are a dictating government they even want to lock kids in the schools at lunch times now to get their own way, well i hope every parents writes to gordon brown and opposes that one.I would rather have a short happy life then a long miserable one under any dictating government. What this government forgets if we die young they wont have to fund us all a pension will they .Nanny state more like a communist state. I hope every smoker drinker people with cars dont forget this at the next election every pleasure we like they are destroying.I wrote to my local MP barbara follett to complain about the smoking ban and she told me her father died of lung cancer due to smoking, so she agrees with the smoking ban and supports every move that persecutes smokers. I wrote back and told her my father died of lung cancer and HE DIDNT SMOKE.This government is the worse government i have ever witnessed and i am 56 years old, never never will i vote them in again. And i wished forest had a bit more balls to fight this persection of smokers.
To Julie mills question, I have been saying this all along no media coverage well all i can say is the government is probably paying a back hander to all television stations to keep this very low profile and make us all think that the smoking ban is working. And its not.There is something telling me that there is some crooked deal going on and it wouldnt surprise me if the tax payer isnt funding it.
Whats happening in magubee country is happening here its all propaganda and lies comming from this government. They are all at it, lying to us about weapons of mass destruction WHERE ARE THEY. Saying they are putting cigarettes up in price for our own good when they are happy to take the revenue from them.Banning cigarettes in public places then smoking themselves in the bars in parliament they are nothing but hypocritical selfish greedy morons that have nothing better to do then think up ways of taxing us more on everything and banning everyones pleasure. I hope gordon brown is the shortest reigning prime minister ever. The united kingdom indepence party sounds worth listening to. Anyone got their phone munber i wouldnt mind standing for them in the next council elections.I hope more people decide to contact them if they allow our freedoms back.
I have just emailed the BBC again asking why
there is no coverage on the tele
about pups bingo halls clubs closing down due to the smoking ban they will soon want to know when labour lose
the next election
email them for yourself drive them mad till they do respond
its our culture our freedom we want back
If the latest proposals go through where they hide cigarettes under the counter. I hope this government is sued for making people who are working on a cigarette counter bob up and down all day and every day making their backs bad for probably working for no more then the minium wage, its impratical and makes a relatively easy job into a very back breaking job. CRAZY.
Ive just emailed the bbc as well you are right they dont cover the real news probably this government has stopped them !!!!!
to many MPS with nothing to do (I MEAN IT)insider
but to keep on thinking about stupid ideas
instead of getting on top of the bigger problems we all face in this changing world
if this is the best they can do stopping our enjoyment and our freedom
they say what goes around comes around they will get their come uppance in the end
any way why do they get subsidised in the bar
don't they earn
wont say that don't they fiddle enough to pay the full price
i would love to take a few out into the real world leave them in hackney all by them self's
at night street wise they would"nt have a clue
watch the crime rate go up when the Olympics
start not to far from there is it
MAKES YOU WANT TO HAVE ANOTHER FAG DONT IT
Pat,
I found the email address for the United Kingdom Independance Party on their website. Just type UKIP in your search engine.
thank you margot johnson
you have just made my mind up who to vote for at the mayoral elections
Yes! Margots right and one or two others. I know whom im voting for now and its not NuDeath nor Covert Cameroon or illiberals.
Thanks Peter.
I am not in the least surprised that the smoking ban is a common law offence and not a criminal one as this implies that we the commoners wanted the ban bringing into force. In effect we not them wanted to close our communities, I don`t think so, tell that to some of the older people who have given their lives to the country only to be ostracised by a very small minority from there fellow man. As for not voting for labour or any other party we need to do what the non smokers have done and not only vote for the main stream parties but become actively involved in them and their decision making.
A Bill to prohibit smoking while driving is to be introduced in the Northern Ireland Assembly. There are enough goons in Stormont to ensure that the Bill becomes law. Within a short time, the other countries of the United Kingdom will inevitably follow suit. After that, the only route left to persecute the smoker will be to prohibit smoking in open spaces, such as parks and even streets. I agred with Gazzer. Smokers need to organise and make their votes count. But how is it to be done? Perhaps Forest should contact well known personalities who support freedom of choice and ask them to form some sort of umbrella body to advise on how smokers can make their 12 million votes really count. For example, Health Minister Dawn Primarolo is the prime mover in the attempt to hide tobacco products from public view. Why not attempt to contact smokers in her constituency so that she can be thrown out at the next election?
sling the lot of them out as far as im concerned. The voting system needs changing if ever we are to see another new party govern this country........As it is now, if you go to vote and there is not a candidate in your borough / POLLING STATION that represents the party of your choice then you cannot vote for that party and that is wrong.The only way to get a fairer vote is to have a candidate that represents every party in every polling station, then you could vote for the party of your choice.
They wont change the system because they know people are sick and tired of the usual three partys and if there was more competition then they know they would certainly lose. They wouldnt like that because look at what they aim to lose..... A huge salary, huge expenses funded by the tax payer, a lavish lifestyle funded by the tax payer, subsidised drinking bars in the house of parliament THAT THEY CAN SMOKE IN , and then they would have to conform to all the things they are expecting us to tolerate, like having to live in the real world like the rest of us.
David Cameron is no better, he supports the smoking ban, but he dosnt mind downing a pint in the pub, whats the difference between smoking and drinking ? drinking is by far the most anti social past time. I have wrote to him about the smoking ban and I would put money on it that i wont get a reply.
They never do when one has a valid argument.
THIS IS OFFICIAL FROM AN INSIDER (TRUTH)
UNLESS THEY HAVE CHANGED IT TO SUIT THIER SELVES I THINK YOU MIGHT LIKE THIS PAT
FROM PALIAMENTRY NOTICES
SENT JUNE 2007
SMOKING ON THE PARLIAMENTRY ESTATE
the estate will become smoke free 1 July 2007
smoking will not be allowed in any internal areas
including bars and private offices
smoking rooms will not be available
smoking will not be allowed in external areas
including roof terraces courtyards and walkways
except for
the commons terrace (subject to normal rules of access )
commons court (north west corner commons court )
north terrace (between portcullis house and Norman Shaw south )
a designated area on the west side of cannon row courtyard )
SPECIFIED AREAS IN
black rods garden
state officers court
peers inner court
smoking will also be allowed in an area at the end of the lords terrace abutting the commons terrace
(subject to the normal rules of access
BUT THIS WILL BE SUBJECT TO REVIEW
SIGNED BY PETER GRANT PETERKIN (SERJEANT AT ARMS
AND BY SIR MICHAEL WILLCOCKS
BLACK ROD
NOW IF THEY HAVE CHANGED IT TO SUIT
SURELY THEY CAN MAKE AN ADMENMENT FOR US TO
HOW DO WE FIND OUT IF THEY ARE SMOKING IN THE BARS OFFICIALY THE BIT SUBJECT TO REVIEW
BOTHERS ME
I think everyone should vote for the BNP at the next election and give all those federalists like gordon and call me dave and the rest of the yes men in the govt a quick sharp shock.
I think if smokers want to send a message to Govt about this stinking ban and and the constant meddling in our personal affairs, then we have to unite behind one party.
Margot Johnson's argument about UKIP has convinced me who I should vote for. If all unhappy smokers put their vote in the same place, then the short, sharp shock might just be felt.
I don't believe the BNP has enough support to make any kind of difference or noise so a vote their way would be wasted.
Even if you support the BNP, why not shift your vote to UKIP just for one election to see what the outcome is and whether a united stand will have an effect. Let's take a united approach for UKIP. What have we got to lose? There's very little left to take away.
There is strength in numbers. We must stand together.
Just remembetr when you go to vote there must be a candidate at your polling station to vote for of the party of your choice. UKIP needs your help it needs funds and it needs the word UKIP to spread so that there could be a candidate at your polling station to vote for.Its about time we made a difference to this unfair voting system and made a stand.
Almost everyone you talk to say they will NOT vote Labour, in fact it's difficult to come across someone who'll admit to having voted for them in the last three elections, but obviously millions did.
I believe the way to show ALL of the politicians of all parties we're fed up living in a dictatorship, is to vote the lot out. If everyone voted for someone other than the candidate up for re-election, vote for another party, or independent, even if it goes against what you believe, I'm sure they'd get the message.
What they won't like is losing their nice cosy, lucrative positions. Take away their power and money and it might just hit home that the electorate can flex their muscles when pushed too far.
Well Ron, they must have amended something because Gordon MacLiar is having a purpose built smoking shed built for No.10 to accommodate smoking workers/visitors.
It appears the only way to further yourself in this country now is by lying, cheating and lining one's pockets on the backs of decent law abiding people.
Step forward 600 odd MPs from the House of Commons. Never has a nation of people lost its democracy and freedom so quickly without blood being shed. This country is now on a par with a banana republic, in fact a banana republic probably has more democratic freedoms than we do now.
I am ashamed to say that my great grandfather was one of the founder members of the labour party but when it was really needed. He, by all accounts was a lovely man who represented people who were called up in front of the Court of Referees, the body who people appealed to when their dole money was about to be cut off. My grandmother used to tell me things were terrible in those days 20s/30s. Women used to take their vegetables doen to the dole office to prepare them while waiting/hoping for some work. They had to turn up every day to get their money. One woman was absolutely desperate on one occasion as she had no money to feed her children. The person behind the counter looked at her and told her that she was wearing a wedding ring -go and pawn it. You could not refuse a job, otherwise your money was cut off. My grandmother fell foul of this (she was a dressmaker/tailoress) and in those days when the season ended workers were told to take a holiday (unpaid which meant go to the dole office). She was given an interview with a dirty old man who put his hand down her blouse - she slapped his face and needless to say she did not get the job. She had to explain to the dole office why and told them so subsequently had to attend the odious Court of Referees to explain herself. Luckily her explanation was accepted by them and her money restored.
I am sorry if I am rambling but the above is to demonstrate that there was a real need in those days for a Labour Party - somebody to represent people who were in abject poverty.
Thankfully we have moved on a long way from then and no-one has to go through those indignities any longer.
I too always used to vote labour because of what it was like in the so-called "good old days".
I was caught in between the voting age being lowered to 18 (I was 20 at the time). I voted for Harold Wilson in the 70s. I started voting conservative in the 80s as under Margaret Thatcher I had never been so prosperous. No I didn't work for a bank - just a temping legal secretary. In those heady days I could smoke as much as I wanted at my desk which increased my productivity as I was happy to work all the hours God sent to make money, skipping lunch breaks, while the non smokers were stuffing their faces with sandwiches and taking 2 hour lunch breaks etc.
I have never relied on the state for anything I have always worked but now my life is miserable.
Labour has outlived its usefulness and is no longer needed. So why do we put up with them. Surely there are enough intelligent people who post on this site to come up with an entirely new party. Look at the Green Party - they started as a bunch of lunatics but have infiltrated all of the main parties' thinking and now seem to be running the country behind the scenes. We need action now. So come on the likes of Dave Atherton, Blad Tolstoy and Zitori - let's do it.
Sylvia,
The British underclass live in abject poverty today which is absolutely disgraceful in a modern society because of all the efforts of our Labour forefathers like your great-grandad who did so much to ensure equality.
You cannot call them working class because some have never worked - not out of choice but because they could never earn enough to live on - even with the ridiculous minimum wage which still doesn't always represent a decent week's earnings.
They have to justify being on benefit, constantly means tested, harrassed, and prosecuted - often for the most minor of offences but then this Govt has introduced 3000 new criminal offences - many designed as a trap for the poor underclass on British council estates who are an easy target for a Govt wanting to make it look as if they are doing something and are tough on crime.
Today's British underclass are made to feel that they are not wanted in a "decent" society, They are at the very bottom of the social ladder and no-one cares about them because they don't speak up for themselves.
The underclass of today are the working class of the turn of the last century. Unfortunately, instead of Labour being the party of the broken, the beaten and the damned, they lie and say the unfortunates are the reason why Britain is in such a mess.
It is time we all stood together and stopped blaming half of society for the other half's ills.