Sobering thought
Tuesday, October 14, 2008 I am about to move outside my comfort zone. Wearing my Free Society hat, I have been invited by the Westminster Health Forum to speak at a seminar called Alcohol & Responsibility.
My session, chaired by Norman Lamb MP (Lib Dem shadow health secretary) concerns binge drinking and ‘everyday’ drinking. The other speakers are Professor Sir Charles George, chairman, Board of Science, British Medical Association; Cathie Smith, British Institute of Innkeeping; and Professor Mark Bellis, director, Centre for Public Health, Liverpool John Moores University.
I have been asked to talk about "the rights of the citizen to enjoy alcohol as part of their chosen lifestyle", plus the impact of current anti-drinking campaigns and the cultural issues behind drinking.
The seminar is next Tuesday. If anyone has any thoughts on these matters, I'd be delighted to hear from you.
Reader Comments (20)
Hi Simon
I am not much of a drinker and certainly not a binge drinker, but I have found that on the odd occasion I have ventured out since the smoking ban I do tend to drink more and get a bit tipsy because of not being able to smoke! A lot of the habit with smoking is the hand to mouth action, hence drinking more and also why so many people put on weight when giving up!
In the long run I can see this going 2 ways - those that just no longer go out, except perhaps for special occasions such as weddings, Christenings, etc and those that continue to go out but end up drinking more! The relevance of people drinking more because they can't smoke will, I guess, depend on what quantities they drank before the ban!
To give some perspective, I would normally drink around 1 to 2 glasses of wine per week, usually one with Sunday lunch and possibly one during an evening in. When out I would probably drink one large glass. Now I find I am drinking 2 or more large glasses on one outing, depending on how long I am out for and the weather! As you can probably imagine, these 2 to 3 large glasses do tend to make me tipsy and once or twice I have verged on being drunk, which I don't like and never set out to do.
Another reason for the drinking is that I no longer feel comfortable going out or standing outside in the street to smoke.
I hope this might be a little help to you.
In the words of Max Bygraves let me tell you a story. About 8 years ago, well before the smoking ban, I went up to Derby to meet a client in the afternoon and spent the day having a drink. The only problem was that the last train out of Derby was non smoking. So in a bit of a rush left the restaurant, cigarette dangling from the side of my mouth and a lung cancer cancelling bottle of Rioja Reserva in the other, having drunk, er, um a couple before. Getting on board realising it was non smoking put my bottle down, pulled down the window and hung over the window to finish my cigarette. Duly completed picked up my bottle again and took my seat. As most people who have met me can probably confirm I am quite sociable and was having a bit of a party in the carriage without anything getting out of hand.
After about ten minutes tiredness caught up with me and nodded off in the corner. The next stop at Leicester we were stationary for quite a long time and was wondering what the problems was. PC 49 and his mate stalked down the carriage and a female jobsworth conductor pointing at me said "it was him smoking". Disarming me of the bottle on the table, which alas had a third left they frog marched me out of the train. On learning that this was the last train to go to London I voiced my displeasure in a non abusive but determined fashion. Being the opinionated person I am, PC 49 and his mate were threatening to charge with a breach of the peace. I pointed out that I was just arguing my case, so I suggested we went down to the station and have a word with the Desk Sergeant or even the Inspector. They then arrested me for breach of the peace.
Cutting to the chase I got banged up and cautioned for drunk and disorderly, letting me go the next day. So if a besuited, albeit assertive sales person can get jailed for merely defending themselves verbally, I am sure youngsters who are genuinely drunk and disorder, purchasing alcohol underage, kicking ten bells out of a victim in the gutter or causing affray can easily be dealt with under existing laws.
It just seems more of the nanny/bully state and underemployed politicians.
It is now being said that pubs should be family friendly. Cigarettes to be hidden out of sight so that youngsters will not be tempted and yet the same kids see alcohol and people enjoying drink. The youngsters will also see people smoking, even if the smokers are outside. This does not make sense, especially when alcohol is a more dangerous drug than tobacco and costs the Health Service more.
This sounds very familiar to the discussions held before the smoking ban. I fear it is obvious that the next target is drink and eventually those traditional pubs left will be gone. How do you monitor the amount drank at home? It cannot be done but you can restrict the amount sold in pubs and those fascists at Alcohol Concern want barstaff educated in 'safe' levels of drinking. This will prevent temporary staff being hired which will probably not be an issue since no one will need them anyway.
People have always drank and some to excess. Some behave badly and others do not. Some people do not need alcohol to commit a nuisance or crime and others would never cause trouble regardless of how much they drank. The anti drink ads have the same effect as anti smoking or anti drugs ads. They are irritating and condescending and if not encourage use at least allow the user to justify it to themselves. In particular the 'Ask Frank' drug ads wanted me to start taking drugs as he was the most annoying person ever seen on TV.
Simon - I am sure you already know what will happen with alocohol over the next few years. It will be a repeat of the same anti-smoking propaganda and strategies adopted to reduce smoking prevalence. I think you may as well say a further 10,000 pubs will close in the UK as a result of any anti-alcohol campaign. The figure cannot be disproved and you will be adopting the same lying tactics as ASH. Bill.
I live in hope that something positive can come out of the coming financial tsunami, namely that all these self-righteous, do-gooding so called 'experts' who want to protect me from myself for my own good will fall down the economic pan and be forced to seek gainful employment doing something useful, like cleaning public lavatories.
The 'rights' of citizens...That already sounds ominous, as though this is a right that we perhaps shoudn't have. Do I hear that word prohibition echoing in the not far off distance?
I'm sure the first steps will be innocent enough. Like the gradual spread of smoking bans, little by little. There is no doubt in my mind that it is in theirs.
Chas - in response to one of the earlier posts about the petition on No. 10 website to ban smoking in beer gardens,in retaliation I opened a petition (which to my surprise was accepted) to ban children from pubs and beer gardens but I cana't remember what I called it (I was probably drunk!)
Sylvia Could you have posted a reply, with that comment, to the following:
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Extend the NO SMOKING BAN to parts of Beer gardens.
Sylvia, it seems a lot of people agree:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7668490.stm
The BBC site even put up a 'Have Your Say' debate about this, which they closed after only one day. (Too many comments perhaps?)
"Binge drinking" annoys me almost as much as the anti-smoking crusade. According to the NHS, binge drinking is consuming more than 8 units of alcohol in one night... that's 3-4 pints of Fosters, or 3-4 glasses of Jacob's Creek!! How many of the very same people who lecture us about binge drinking do you think have drunk 3 or 4 glasses of wine at a dinner party? For me and my friends, 8 units is a quiet night out... Binge-drinking is a myth - there's having a quiet drink, getting tipsy, getting drunk... and a few others at the end of that scale! Binge-drinking is a new term, that allows for a moderm epidemic to be created, that has to be addressed by limiting the amount people can drink in pubs and clubs, but leaving alone the middle classes and their dinner parties (by the way, i'm middle glass, though hate dinner parties). They couldn't say there's an epidemic of getting drunk, because people have been getting drunk for thousands of years. They also can't say that people are drinking more, because people are drinking less than they did 20 - 30 years ago. So the only way to maintain an attack on getting drunk was to create a new problem, that could be moulded into an epidemic. As mentioned earlier, if 8 units is the definition of binge-drinking, about 99% of the adult population are binge-drinkers!
What also annoys me is the alcohol-violence link. Alcohol does not turn pacifists into yobs. Alcohol can make violent people more violent, but there is a culture of people who go out specifically to get in a fight - it's not alcohol that does this, though it may help, it's merely their mindset/personality. The government should look to prevent/punish crimes regardless of whether they are committed by drunk people or sober people...
For the outcome of the 'Alcohol & responsibility' seminar, and all the other 'thinktanks' see smoking ban in enclosed public spaces - then phase 2/3/4 of that ban - (we're still only at phase 1 at present). The pubs will no doubt scream for the supermarkets to be made to increase prices - to create a 'level playing field'. When ID cards come in they'll no doubt start by having to show them to buy booze - regardless of age - which will force poeple to get one who otherwise would not comply. A very short jump from there is having to swipe the card to purchase booze in any outlet and you total purchases will be capped. Orwellian fantasy or new reality?
All I can say Simon, is tat the people of this naion have been gettting high on booze for centuries, it isn't going to change any time soon. Why does this sodding government just apply the laws that exist rather than seek to introduce yet more.
Michael Peoples said
"The anti drink ads have the same effect as anti smoking or anti drugs ads. They are irritating and condescending..."
Quite right. Only the other night, I was doing that rare activity, watching telly, and I saw one of those adds where a youngster, on his way out for the night, is doing the things that 'some' people apparently do when they are very drunk. I turned to the person with me, and said, what is that going to do - nothing - except cost a small fortune of taxpayers money to make and broadcast.
Can I just add to my last comment. I said that I had questioned what the adverts would do, which was nothing. That sounds as if I am saying something should be done. Actually, I don't feel that at all. I am sure many of us have done something rather embarrasing or we have broken something when we were drunk, I have, maybe two or three times in 57 years!!! These adverts suggest that ALL drunk males and females do ALL of this every time they drink a little (or a lot) too much. Absolute rubbish. Which is why the adverts are a patronising waste of our money, because an extremely small number of people will look at them and connect in any way at all.
Chas
I did think about annexing to the
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Extend the NO SMOKING BAN to parts of Beer gardens.
but thought better of it as I am sure all the comments will be ignored and just counted as a vote for the petition!
Rob
I totally agree with your previous post. One point I would like to make is, why do the NHS still keep harping on about these so called units of alcohol when they have been discredited by the person who invented them admitting that he had no idea what a measure of a unit should be so just plucked a figure out of thin air!
Timbone
Surely the agenda of the Gov by swamping us with these adverts is to brainwash us into believing that drinking is socially unacceptable. They are paving the way for prohibition. They don't care how many pubs close due to the smoking ban. They don't want people going to pubs. People meet new people in pubs and some might get a bit of work on the side (cash in hand) through a mate, which they can't tax. Much better for us all to sit in our homes being brainwashed into thinking the right government approved thinking or sitting on the internet where Jacqui Smith is planning legislation to snoop on our emails and web pages we visit and phone calls. They cannot snoop on our conversations in pubs yet (I say yet because spy in the sky satellites haven't been used to their full potential of zooming in and listening into converations). Much better for them to have us all under self imposed house arrest - why bother with tags? They at Westminster must be so pleased with themselves.
Be afraid, be very afraid.
And today they go back to harping on about excessive drinking for women increases the risk of breast cancer! My immediate reaction to that statement was 'bollocks' - if you will excuse the expression!
Some jumped up so and so from Breast Cancer Awareness, I think it was, even said that sadly, too many women are still ignoring this risk, the same way smokers ignore the risks of smoking!
They think they have had a huge success with smokers, in the main, so they are now pressing home the same tactics on women who drink!
Don't get me wrong, I am not in favour of binge drinking and all the mayhem that causes, but as a rare drinker myself, in these stressful times I even find myself having the odd extra drink, just to try and relax a little!
Unfortunately, whether or not this announcement is true, too many people, like myself, are just too sceptical about such reports after all the junk that has been spouted about passive smoking!
All we can hope is that this is the start of the shooting in the foot that will finally cripple the organisations that are exploiting public donations for far more sinister gains!
"They don't care how many pubs close due to the smoking ban. They don't want people going to pubs."
It is interesting that you should say that Sylvia. Last December I made a couple of vids for youtube, England V Spain parts 1 & 2. Here is a quote from part 2:
"Were they not aware that some pubs would close? Of course they were.That nice little pub where people drink more than two units of alcohol, tut tut, binge drinking!, many people smoke, they play darts, have a pub quiz or a Karaoke night, people swear, we can’t be having that.The Government don’t want these pubs, they want nice family orientated licensed premises, with an area - not a smoking area, a play area for the children."
Here are the links for the two vids.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pEblKPjiK60
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PPEfYx9KHSU
What a sensible piece from Rob (16thOct) on binge drinking. I am retired, forty years of commuting behind me, and I enjoy a drink. Whisky is my choice. A couple in the evening around dinner and then a drop before bedtime. Nothing in the day or when watching TV in the evening. Lots of tea.
But, by definition, I am a marginal binge drinker, a marginal society problem. My doctor doesn't think so. He hurrumphed at the, politically correct, no more than six units but did not consider this pensioned off wimp to be a threat to the community. Neither did anyone else in the heady days when moderate alcohol consumption was not considered a daily sin. I have never fought anyone. On the, very rare, occasions of over indulgence I just fall asleep. Binge drinking is a myth except for the few who would, on a bad day, beat up their grandmothers after a cup of strong tea. But I also smoke so presumably my view on the real ills of our modern politically correct life don't count. Grumpybutterfly.