Monday
Nov052007
Smokers are voters, too, Mr Cameron
Monday, November 5, 2007 
Tonight, with several of my Forest colleagues, I shall be at the Conservative Way Forward Annual Dinner at the Sheraton Park Lane Hotel in London. Forest is co-sponsoring the pre-dinner drinks reception, where we will be giving away CDs, t-shirts, cigar matches, pocket ashtrays and other campaign tools featuring messages such as 'Enough's Enough' and 'Fight for Choice'.
In addition to David Cameron, after dinner speakers include shadow foreign secretary William Hague and former Secretary of State for Trade and Industry Cecil Parkinson. Our message to the Conservative leader and his colleagues is clear and concise and appears in a full page advertisement in the souvenir programme (above).
Reader Comments (23)
I'm so pleased that this has been arranged, and sorry not to be coming. It is absolutely crucial that we are present - I had all but given up on DC being interested in the arguments but maybe, maybe there is some openness after all - and 12-15 million votes might just be of some interest! Have a wonderful evening.
The DoH would have us believe that between 75 and 90% of the public love the ban!
If that is the case then obviously the pubs and clubs would certainly stay non-smoking, given the choice, because that's where the profit lies. Why change. Will they put their money where their mouth is? Like hell!
They KNOW that the majority of places would give smokers a choice, and these statistics from our sacred leaders, are as shameful as they are deceptive.
The Tories give the same answers as NuLabour
when asked about the ban, and the evidence leading to it, so they seem completely entrenched in the lies from cult of Ash.Without this dispicable bunch of fanatics, debate could be much easier and more truthful between all sides. Their credibility has to be attacked at every opportunity, and their lies exposed especially to the politicians.
Have you included in your souvenir programme the comments from many distraught smokers who believe their social lives have been destroyed mindlessly by this spiteful and unnecessary ban?
These Politicians should know what our views are too!
As I saw a very frail and old lady, muffled against the cold, wheeled by a kindly hospital nurse out into into the open today to smoke a cigarette, I thought of C.S.Lewis's words, uttered in a different context but still relevant: "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
I just want to express my disappointment in the number of quotes in the papers attributed to Forest along the lines of "we know smoking is bad but" or "we know SHS is bad but" the latest being in the recent report on banning smoking in homes with children.
What would be your definition of a victory? A smoking shelter with 3 walls?
Great Scot makes an important point; how easy to miss the other argument and appear to 'apologise'. Norman has the best quote ever and it should replace all the bloody labels on buildings throughout the land, if I had my way. That story really shook me; how I wanted to scoop that lady up, make sure she had every comfort she needed, and restore her basic civil dignitities. Shit society.
'Most parents know the dangers from passive smoking' this quote today from Forest's Simon Clark.
NOW I see why Forest have not pushed to expose, at every opportunity, the biggest fraud the public has ever had to endure.... because they believe it! Well at least now we know the truth.
If you believe the epidemiological scandal, and the incredible fairy tales from the truly vindictive and fanatical antis, then how can you possibly oppose the ban, and be of any use whatsoever to the fight against this travesty.
You've just confirmed my suspicians.
Don't believe everything you read in the papers. I didn't say any such thing. I'm not aware of having spoken to the Express (where this quote appeared) or anyone else about this story because the first I knew of it was when I read the report in the Express. We have asked the paper to tell us where (and when) they got the quote and are waiting for their response. In the meantime you have only to read our website or the numerous documents/publications we have produced over many years to know just how hard we have fought the fraudulent arguments about the harmful effects of "passive smoking".
Simon, if that quote was invented by the Express, then you have my apologies.
Dear Simon,
I was just about to vent my spleen on you too. I was very unhappy to read that and I thought it was lacking in logic, you saying that. Apologies for my dark thoughts.
Regards
Dave
Simon,
I too was disappointed with FOREST re the quote in the Express, but if they misquoted you or you were never interviewed - sue them!
"Have you included in your souvenir programme the comments from many distraught smokers who believe their social lives have been destroyed mindlessly by this spiteful and unnecessary ban?" from Chris F J Cyrnik
I sincerely hope someone is fighting our corner! As a result of this ban, I, personally am suffering from depression and anxiety, am on medication and have just had to reduce my working hours by 2 days a month in order to join a CBT (Cognitive Behaviour Therapy) course.
When will governments and their hangers on listen and hear the facts that stress is a bigger cause of cancer than smoking is, never mind the apparent harm from ETS, which has yet to be proven. None of the so called scientific studies available publicly would stand up to professional scrutiny.
My life has been changed and damaged incredibly. I now no longer go out as there is nowhere to go that I want to be, if I can't enjoy a glass of wine or a coffee with a smoke; the thought of standing out on the street to smoke I find intimidating and whichever way you turn, just like drivers, we are being persecuted! All of a sudden, the fag butt is the most evil and dangerous of litter! Never heard a word about it being so dangerous prior to the ban, although, due to lack of facilities for disposing of fag butts, I realise the problem has grown in the last few months.
I have to say that I make a point of smoking in outside areas where there are notices forbidding smoking, as I refuse to be stopped from smoking in the open air. I am not sure of the legalities, but I have heard that these notices banning smoking outdoors are not actually enforceable. If anyone knows anything, I'd be grateful to hear.
I am sick to the back teeth of paying these bloody politicians, local and national, so that they can parade around like someone important, destroy our lives on the flimsiest of 'scientific' evidence because they can't find their brain to put it in gear to see through the lies and can get around most of the legislation by exempting themselves for whatever reason!
I desparately need to get out of this country permanently as I feel this is the only way I have any chance of getting back to the person I was before this debacle. Unfortunately, all of this is causing friction in my marriage and that just adds to my stress and depression.
I just cannot believe that my ancestors fought for this country in 2 world wars, fought for our freedom and that freedom is now being thrown away willy nilly by a bunch of morons who probably wouldn't be employed by anyone, so had to go into politics or sign up for the dole! It is Rememberance Day on Sunday and many of these two faced idiots will be all dressed up showing their support when all the while they have been showing such disrespect for what many of those who fell fought for. It is utterly dispicable.
Yes, Remberance Day. The poppy has become, at least on TV a PC badge. Without it you're not seen as being PC or respectful. The TV producers must be demanding any guest on any show wears a poppy, because they ALL do.
The whole point of wearing a poppy is surely personal, and to be coerced into it is another sign of these ridiculous times. The politicians proudly wearing theirs, while supporting ever more cuts to our freedom.What desperate hypocrites they really are.
Hello Lyn; I echo every word. The battle is with small minds unfortunately and how they need to control. Just imagine, a mind-set that has to put a label on every building. Never forget the wonderful Peter Cooke who said that if anyone objected to his fags then they probably weren't worth talking to anyway. Many a true word in jest - and something I have found to be absolutely true. Chilling.
Keep on fighting and getting on every web site we can; there may be a dent coming. And by the way, Boisdale's looks good with their cigar marquee. Looks like one haven and I'm sure others will follow; but sadly all my lovely pubs and coffee shops - esp. in cold weather, have just died. Ireland is better apparently and making much warmer facilities available. It's very depressing though and social life ain't the same. Bloody cold out there.
Lyn
I too refuse to be stopped from smoking in the open air and I am also unsure of the legality in the placing of signs. Perhaps it is some young over zealous pip-squeak (like the one who made up the "quote" from Simon in the Express! The only advice I would give you Lyn is beware of putting your cigarette out on the pavement as there are bound to be plain clothes smoke police patrolling ready to give you an on the spot fine and swell the councils' anti smoking coffers even more. What I do is keep an empty fag packet to put the butts in. Quite a "green" solution I think. Why buy one of those silly tubes we pay enough for the fags in the first place.
Whilst writing has anybody else noticed how the antis have recruited children in their campaign. I can imagine them saying to children "If you see somebody smoking cough as loud as you can when you walk past and give them a filthy look". This happens to me quite frequently but I just ignore them.
Politicians of various hues are very careful not to be seen to go against the received or 'correct' opinion of the day.To do so would be to offer an easy target for cynical, mob manipulating opponents. But votes can persuade ... witness inheritance tax. It is to be hoped that use of the smoking vote is at least in the secret armoury of all the parties, to be used if they think it is safe to do so. On the subject of children and second hand tobacco smoke there are millions of old people alive today who grew up in smoky, blackout-sealed, coal fire-heated wartime houses 60 and more years ago. I often wonder why this has not been noticed.
The answer, from this government,to me, to the fact that we now have the longest living generation in British history being the very ones who were force fed passive smoking everywhere,is that it is entirely due to advances in healthcare, but we are told passive smoking kills, so how could any amount of healthcare save them! We wouldn't have an elderly generation at all if their ludicrous claims were right.
Comparing the longevity rates of the generations before and after smoking became so popular,after WW1. it is glaringly obvious that while passive smoking grew to epidemic proprtions over the next 50 years or so,the children who grew up through this lived longer.
If the propaganda is to be believed, these kids wouldn't have made it to twenty!
Politicians should be aware of this more than anyone, as the 'decisions made in smoke-filled rooms',a very accurate phrase,described their working conditions, and many politicians from these times lived to great ages, and some are still with us, despite their exposure to the worlds most evil substance.
The fanatics have had their 15 minutes of fame. It's time for reason and sanity to kick their arses very hard.
Has this country really got our values completely out of order. On returning from a holiday recently, we naturally had the hour and a quarter wait for the luggage. in that time the only Airport announcement that was made 9 times was about the fact we were not allowed to smoke. At the same time a lady near me had her Handbag stolen. It crossed my mind that instead of the 9 No Smoking announcements surely there could have been at least 1 that said 'No Thieving'!!
Smokers pay more taxes (£10 billion) and die younger. We don't hang around for 20 years useless years with Alzheimers draining the Welfare State of resources. We are a boon on society.
So a percentage of smokers die younger - so what? The healthists imply that if we give up smoking we will forever. Life kills. Get used to it.
Smokers pay more taxes (£10 billion) and die younger. We don't hang around for 20 useless years with Alzheimers draining the Welfare State of resources. We are a boon on society!
So a percentage of smokers die younger - so what? The healthists imply that if we give up smoking we will forever. Life kills. Get used to it.
Smokers pay more taxes (£10 billion) and die younger. We don't hang around for 20 useless years with Alzheimers draining the Welfare State of resources. We are a boon on society!
So a percentage of smokers die younger - so what? The healthists imply that if we give up smoking we will forever. Life kills. Get used to it.
The countries with the highest longevity rates such as Japan and Greece also have the highest smoking rates in the world. The idea that smokers an average die earlier, taken worldwide is not true. It's another blanket lie that is branded into peoples minds. The majority of the oldest living in the world have been smokers,so a little passive smoking
doing harm? forget it! There is much evidence that it can be protective. That is hard to get across, because it is so vilified.
Norman is right; votes can persuade. But if so, why is DC taking no notice at all? He must have sanctioned the Forest stand at the Sheraton dinner at least, but then 'arrived late'. By my understanding politicians are too savvy to 'arrive late'. Perhaps he didn't want to be too closely associated. That's the problem - this legislation is so fraught with political complexities that MPs have found refuge in the bland party line, and silence, which efffectively betrays a signficant section of the whole population.
Yesterday we had Remembrance Sunday, with all the parades and respect for the millions who died. Yet not one of them, yesterday, could have had a quiet pint and a smoke in their local pub or club - indoors, in peace. I have asked DC on the webcameron site why they died.
Perhaps he can tell us.