Celebrate but let's not get carried away
Thursday, May 13, 2010 Chris Snowdon, who writes the excellent Velvet Glove Iron Fist blog which is named after the book of the same name, has some interesting things to say - from a libertarian perspective - about the outcome of the general election. Writing for The Free Society, Chris says:
A glance at the Con-Dem agreement offers a stark reminder of how many freedoms have been lost since 1997, and of how many more were under threat from a fourth Labour term. The ID card scheme and its attendant national database will now be scrapped. School children will not be finger-printed without parental consent. Jury trial will be protected. CCTV will be regulated. The right to protest will be restored. Safeguards will be put in place to stop the misuse of anti-terrorist laws. Police will no longer be able to keep the DNA records of innocent people in perpetuity.
This is all good news, adds Chris, but ...
Dave ‘n’ Nick’s ... attitude towards the nanny state is more ambiguous. A Great Repeal Bill is on the cards, but which laws will be overturned remains to be seen. Drinkers and smokers, like fox-hunters, might find themselves at the back of a very long line. The Lib Dems were the first party to advocate a smoking ban in pubs and are more likely to ease up on marijuana than on tobacco. For their part, the Tories are even more inclined towards the Daily Mail’s stance on ‘booze Britain’ than were Labour ...
Dave ‘n’ Nick may, like Gordon Brown, find that fresh prohibitions in the name of public health are eye-catching and inexpensive ways of diverting attention away from more serious problems. It is simply too early to say whether their commitment to civil liberties will translate into support for social liberties ...
Meanwhile:
As they regroup, Labour strategists might reflect that bullying the public over their lifestyles turned out not to be the vote-winner the pressure groups assured them it would be. Of course, it would be wrong to pretend that civil liberties played a major role in the election, but while we may not have voted for liberty on May 6th, there is half a chance, if Dave ‘n’ Nick ignore the shriller voices around them, that we might get it anyway.
Full article HERE. Worth reading. You can comment here.
PS. Chris Snowdon’s new book The Spirit Level Delusion: Fact-checking the Left’s New Theory of Everything is published on Monday 17th May. More details, including a review, to follow.
Reader Comments (24)
Yes, let's celebrate that the loathsome unelected Brown has finally been prized out of 10 Downing Street, but let's not get carried away by believing that David Cameron is the people's choice for replacement.
The people spoke loud and clear. They said, "None of the above". Not all were allowed to speak and those that did had been brainwashed into believing there were only three choices. Gordon Brown had been EU-media portrayed as the villain of the piece who must be got rid of at all cost. Only a vote for Tory or Lib-Dem could do it. Historically,a vote for Lib-Dem would be a wasted vote, so only a Tory vote would ensure he goes.
As far as the heavily controlled media was concerned, the fourth largest party, UKIP, had ceased to exist. A vote for UKIP would certainly be a wasted vote and could assist Brown to remain as PM. Even so, UKIP achieved almost a million votes in spite of dodgy practices and the clouded postal vote.
Yet still the people managed to speak and to say, "None of the above".
The outcome is a ludicrous LibDem/Con "partnership" which cannot possibly last and certainly does not mirror the wish of the people.
The mist is clearing, Brown has gone. Neither popinjay plastic-man Cameron nor mirror image hidden-agenda Clegg are the people's choice. Remaining as a full member of the European Union with the colossal financial hardships that entails is certainly not the people's choice.
A tiny ray of hope remains in the newly created constituency of Thirsk & Malvern in North Yorkshire. Due to the sudden death of the UKIP candidate, its election date was postponed until May 28th.
Let's see what the newly enlightened people versus the Big Brother establishment make of this.
Sorry, haste and inattention to detail, as always! Wrong name given The excellent UKIP candidate put it correctly:-,:
"Mr Horton says his candidacy offers the people of Thirsk and Malton – a new constituency following recent boundary changes – a chance to vote with their hearts and not their heads in the wake of an unsatisfactory general election.
He added: “Chaos at the very heart of our politics has led directly to the chaotic outcome of the general election.”
For full details of this highly qualified ex-Tory candidate see www.ukip.org.
Talking about UKIP
The test will come next week when the UK is asked to sign up to ,this..
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ambroseevans-pritchard/100005678/europes-fiscal-fascism-brings-british-withdrawal-ever-closer/
quote;
The European Commission is calling for EU powers to vet budgets of the 27 member states before the draft laws have been presented to the House of Commons, the Tweede Kamer, the Folketing, the Bundestag, the Assemblee Nationale, or other national parliaments. It applies to Britain even though we are not in EMU.
Time to go I think.
This will extend our resession for even longer.
This will limit our influences on our own economy.
Holy Moley, the great Kipper in the sky has returned, and if the people of Thirsk and Malton, get their act together quick enough, we could all just be saved... Hallelujah!
I am so pleased that you enlightened us all Margot, with your experience and knowledge of the voting system here in the UK, by telling us that when we put our little tick on the ballot paper, beside the party of our choice, we didn't really mean that party at all did we? According to your logic, what we really meant was "none of the above". I wonder why all those millions that voted for Labour, the Conservatives and Lib-Dem even bothered using the ballot papers at all then, if that's what they really meant?
You talk about having got rid of the "loathsome unelected Brown", which I agree with, but please don't forget the loathsome unelected Mandelson, and the loathsome unelected Campbell. These two loathsome unelected characters were the people who kept Labour in power by their lies and spin, and do you know what you are doing Margot? You are doing the same as them, you are trying to spin what happened at the GE into some sort of vast conspiratorial anti-UKIP thing.
You say "as far as the heavily controlled media was concerned, the fourth largest party, UKIP, had ceased to exist". Come off it Margot, it wasn't the media that killed UKIPs chances, it was UKIP. The electorate just did not believe in them or want them. Here are the figures, which I am sure you are already well aquatinted with, but just to remind you of all those votes, who you seem to believe were cast as "none of the above".
Conservative Party ended up with 306 seats and 10,706,647 votes
Labour Party ended up with 258 seats and 8,604,358 votes
Liberal Democrat Party ended up with 57 seats and 6,827,938 votes
UKIP ended up with 0 seats and just 917,832 votes (which wasn't far in front of the BNP.
There was a 65.1% turnout with 29,653,638 votes cast. UKIP received approximately one thirtieth of them.
Peter,
Why, then, was it a hung parliament? To me this suggests "none of the above". If people wanted a Tory government they would have voted for it.
In spite of the Ashcroft millions and full EU manipulation of TV and media, the people did not give an overwhelming confidence vote to the Tories. They were manipulated and strategically engineered to get rid of Gordon Brown. In no way did this show confidence in the other two failed old EU-loving parties.
Follow closely what Specky has said above and ponder upon how often the words "Common Purpose" were used by Clegg and Cameron. Even the word "Fabianism" was introduced within the Labour camp.
The old divisive political system is dead. Hopefully we are witnessing the death throws before much more damage is done to our beloved country and its decent people. . .
Good God Margot, please come off it, you're sounding more like Mandeslson every day. "Why, then, was it a hung parliament?" you ask. It was a hung Parliament Margot for the simple reason that we, the Conservatives, did not get a big enough majority, due to the simple fact, which I know that you know, but are just being obstreperous about, that Labour fiddled the boundaries so much in their favour, that it made it almost impossible for "any" party to get a fair result.
At the previous GE, Tony Blair got approximately the same number of seats that we got this time, and ended up with a 60 something seat majority, surely that speaks for itself doesn't it?
A vote, Margot, is when a person puts their cross on their ballot paper for a specific party. Nearly 30 million people bothered to do exactly that, some of them were so keen to vote that they queued up in the pouring rain, and almost provoked riots in order to cast their vote for the party of their choice, and you are honestly trying to tell me that what they were really saying was "none of the above"?. If people wanted "none of the above" Margot, all they had to do was abstain from voting.
Cast your mind back some months before the election. Almost the only people whom we heard talking up a hung Parliament were the UKIP supporters. I didn't want one, in fact I probably argued with you at the time about the possible dangers of such a result. A hung Parliament is not something anyone in their right mind would advocate in preference to an all out majority Parliament, led by one party, but due to Labour's blatant dishonesty, we have now been landed with one. But I do think you are being very unfair on the British electorate by laying the blame on them for what has happened here.
No one voted for this Margot, and you know that, but we have now been straddled with it, and both the Conservatives and the Lib-Dems are trying their best to make it work. Whether it will or not no one knows, we will just have to wait and see.
Come on, Margot. Stop deluding yourself.
Individual voters voted for individual members of parliament. The hung parliament was a mere statistical happenchance and is something to be dealt with, as has been done. We now have to be content for the time being and see how things work out.
I think that we who visit Simon’s blog to talk about smoking issues should put away purely political party issues for the time being.
We now have a government and our hope and aspiration ought to be to try to influence the government with the hope of amending the ban. Certainly, I personally think that the new health sec will have a damn sight more difficulty in getting anti-smoking legislation through cabinet than the wretched Hewitt and Flint did. By the way, did the Caroline Flint survive?
Caroline Flint did survive. I saw her looking like a huge weight had been lifted from her shoulders. I personally do not lump her with Hewitt and Harmon and other Labour 'wimmin', one of whom has lost her seat. Flint did not change the Manifesto committment concerning smoking bans, Hewitt did, John Reid's replacement, and one who took money to lobby. Caroline Flint did not lick Browns Scottish arsehole.
Margot -
You are probably one of the few to have noticed the occasional use of the concepts of 'common purpose' and 'Fabianism' during the recent 'campaign'.
I doubt whether one percent of those who bothered to vote did, however.
Little words, but hugely significant.
Especially when taken together with that other rather sinister-sounding notion of a 'post-democratic' Europe (and World, probably).
This seems to me to be entirely consistent with the end of the 'divisive politics' to which you refer.
Some people rather welcome the latter.
I do not.
Politics SHOULD be 'divisive' - in the sense that any political forum (Congress, Parliament, Parish Council) SHOULD be a Battleground of
Ideas, surely ?
Assuming Society still has sufficient vitality to cherish 'ideas' worth fighting about, that is.
The alternative is either the creeping totalitarianism of which so many of us are fearful, or a return to the urban mob and the militia.
In fact - and whether we like it or not - the real political fault-lines are where they have been for most of the twentieth century: between the Collectivists, and the Individualists.
Where once there was a crude (very crude at times) correlation between these and the major party philosophies and policies, there is now a distinct blurring and fuzziness.
And it worries me that we are supposed to CELEBRATE the birth of a New Consensualism, in which the parties strive to stifle any conflict which reflects the concerns of an informed but growing number of the electorate:
Climate Change Fraud, Europe, Brutally Unnecessary Wars, Rapacious Bureuacracy, Child-Snatching by the State, Constitutional Vandalism, Impoverished Education, an increasingly Repressive Apparat etc etc.
Some 'ideas' that might just merit the occasional 'heated debate' in the Forum of the Nation, one would have thought.
Who shall speak of them now ?
I suspect no-one.
Instead (I fear) the studio lights will continue to shine upon the smiling face of that truly 'post-democratic' phenomenon, 'Communitarianism' - and the audience's function will be reduced to that of mindless attendants of the Jonathan Ross Show.
No questions will be allowed.
Only applause.
And a little sham 'participation', if you're lucky.
Not for the first time, I TRULY want to be wrong.........
Peter,
What would you do without me - rising to your bate regarding the great "UKIPper in the Sky?" [See a previous thread below]. Once again, I am using up time I haven't got.
This recent EU staged pantomime of an election gave the people only three choices:-
a] Remove EU loving Gordon Brown, who has been manipulated to bring this country to its knees?
Yes, they queued in the rain to do this and the results showed that they achieved it.
b] Risk not getting rid of Gordon Brown by splitting the Tory vote in favour of the even more EU-loving Nick Clegg?
Not worth the risk, and the results showed it.
c] Vote Tory because they really want a privileged ckasses EU loving Conservative government as well as getting rid of Gordon Brown?
No - and the results showed it.
This is why I say that the results showed a vote for "None of the above" and the fervent desire for a hung parliament. Within the chaos that would ensue, we may still get out from under the ruinous jackboot of the EU.
You say that there is no such thing as a collective conscousness? I would beg to differ. Or do you need proof that this is only possible through scenes of bloodshed and violence such as we have in Greece, Thailand and so many other parts of the oppressed world?
Will this "coalition" attempt to amend the smoking ban? Of course not. In true Nazi style the last thing the EU would allow is returning the right for our little parliaments, the pubs & clubs, to re-establish themselves.
Which of you nit-picking Tory posters on here can say, hand on heart, that you wish to remain within the EU? Behind our backs the last six Prime Ministers sold us out to EU/Globel Control and all ended up personally as very wealthy people.
Now let's see what happens next.
Margot
I am still struggling to understand your logic.
So the EU rigged the election to replace Brown with Cameron did it?
That would be the same Cameron that took the Conservatives out of the EPP to join with the eurosceptics would it? Eh?
And Cameron is an agent for Common Purpose is he? Oh, and Clegg too.
"Fervent desire for a hung parliament......" are you kidding? This happened because of Labour's boundary changes which made Cameron's task a herculaen one, particularly so when 900,000 people voted kipper.
And you seem to imply that the EU has control of the UK's smoking ban.
I won't even bother with the collective consciousness thing.
It's not that I disagree with any particular thing you've said. I just don't have the mental agility necessary to analyse so many issues and then conclude that UKIP is the sole saviour for all ills.
I want out of the EU too. I am also very suspicious of Common Purpose.
But I also see the coalition as an opportunity to keep the left down and out where they belong. Without them perhaps some of the evil of the last 13 years can be undone.
Goodstuff- "So the EU rigged the election to replace Brown with Cameron did it?
That would be the same Cameron that took the Conservatives out of the EPP to join with the euro sceptics would it? Eh?"
Yes, indeed. It was the same purportedly euro sceptic Cameron who did exactly that but did not then place his party alongside the second largest British party already in the EU Parliament - the UK Independence Party. This would have created a clear voice to say that Britain wants self government and to be done with destructive EU involvement. Independent Switzerland and Independent Norway are doing very nicely, thank you, and have no enormous debt, repressive laws and recession to deal with.
Please explain to me again just how euro sceptic Cameron actually is and, while you are at it, explain why he and his Tory party and their Tory peers did not rise up with one voice and condemn the Labour party for reneging on their manifesto promise to allow an EU Referendum?
Did he and his party actually READ the all embracing Lisbon Treaty before voting through its Ratification? Was Lord Pearson of UKIP the only politician at Westminster to actually READ the Lisbon Treaty and, patiently, point by point attempt to stop ratification before we had lost our sovereignty forever?
I am the one totally confused. We are either in or out of the EU and its Lisbon Treaty. We cannot cherry pick.
You also wrote:-
"And you seem to imply that the EU has control of the UK's smoking ban."
Well of course it has. The Lisbon Treaty gives them control over everything. Just as Nazi occupied Europe gave Hitler control over his smoking ban and his other healthist extremes such as selective breeding. His smoking ban didn't apply to the "crème de la crème" of course. Just as it doesn't apply within our Westminster Parliament or the EU Parliament. We are told that much internal negotiation between the Tories and Lib-Dems took place within the smoke filled "Strangers Bar" inside the House of Commons.
Finally, Goodstuff, you wrote that a further impediment to a good Tory majority was the 900,000 votes for UKIP. How very true that is! Can you imagine 900,000 people together in one place? What a mighty crowd that would be. In spite of everything stacked against them were they to be denied any voice at all?
All this excruciating political analysis aside (including mine), there's only ONE way to judge the desirability of this particular tree, newly-sprung in Paradise:
By the FRUIT it produces.
Sweet, sour, or totally tasteless.
We should know within six months or so.................
Margot is dead right, did ANY country actually read the all embracing Lisbon Treaty and its full consequences.
Like for instance the PIGS countries hoping for bailouts because they stupidely gave up their currencies for the euro and who are now, that the euphoria of false money has disappeared, are now beginning to realise that the economic union is not what we intended to sign up for, while the EU elite can now turn around and say to them 'Didnt you read the small print'.
We're in the trap now, thanks to our arse licking govts, and because our European masters have no intention of listening to our demands for retreat from ever closer union.
No way Jose, after investing generations of time and effort into getting independent european states to surrender sovereignty.
There's nothing for nothing with this lot, which we will all learn to our cost.
Martin V
I should let your wise words above be the last word on this thread, but I wanted to clarify something you wrote in your previous post. I should have found a better word to describe our historical political system as "divisive". Until now it has been a straight class war between the "privileged" classes and the "under-privileged". There can't be one without the other. True blue Tories yearn for a return to that system. True red socialists remain intent on destroying it and equalising the concentrations. It has never been a healthy system until the Socialists gained power and introduced the [then] miracle of the NHS and, above all, the too brief meritocracy of the late forties to sixties. Then the Socialists too became greedy and installed Trade Union bosses as the new "privileged" class.
However, your point is very valid that such divisiveness was becoming healthy. Due to increasing equality of education and living conditions it finally created freedom for discussion and a fair voting system. So - cue the extremists in both camps and we arrive at the power struggle impasse we have today.
Add in the mighty world domination of the medical profession, aka the Pharmaceutical Industry, and the ordinary man in the street simply hasn't a hope in hell of survival.
Within this context, let me clarify the actual purpose of the much loved and much maligned UK Independence Party aka UKIP aka [on here], the Great Kipper in the Sky. It is NOT anti-Tory or anti-Labour or anti-Liberal or anti any other party except the militant BNP. It simply wants to get us out of EU/Global domination and return government of this United Kingdom to our people themselves but based on the successful Swiss style of small central government and large fairly elected regional government. Like Switzerland we would establish strict border control and like Switzerland would probably reintroduce two year National Service so that we have a modern well equipped up to date Military to call upon. No wars would be entered into without national Referendum. Tobacco smuggling would disappear due to lowering of excise duty and sensible normalisation of our tobacco product industry. The wealthier countries within Europe would follow our lead and run themselves independently as they used to.
So, Martin, let's see what happens next.
Margot -
Thanks for that.
And, I can assure you, YOU would not be unhappy about where I put my cross on election day.
I just wish - and I admit to having come reluctantly to agree with Peter Hitchens on this one - that the Conservative Party would decide EXACTLY where it stands on 'Europe'. Its current stance is both dishonest and confusing to its supporters.
(Following its volte-face in the late Eighties, at least the Labour party can claim some intellectual consistency on the matter - for now).
If it means a split between the Europhile and the Eurosceptic wings, then so be it.
'Europe' is INFINITELY more important than Irish Home Rule, the Corn Laws, and Franchise Reform combined.
Certainly more important than the 'unity' of the Conservative Party.
What, after all, are they 'united' ABOUT, of not the method by which our nation is governed ?
Everything else is parish trivia by comparison.
It just seems both absurd and unfair to me that SUCH a commanding 'issue' should be left to a struggling 'minority' party to bring before the public.
As to the Coalition, I shall stand by my earlier words.
Holding my breath, and counting down slowly...................
That is to say,
"IF not the method......................"
(Just blame the port: the favoured tipple of the maid-rogering, peasant-hunting classes, so I'm told).
@ Martin. Holding my breath and counting down slowly - so am I, Martin. So am I. At present I don't really know what to think so I'd better get outside whilst it isn't raining and do a spot of gardening to calm my restless soul.
Ann,
Thanks for your never failing and hard hitting reality of vision.
Martin V,
You sail closer to the wind than I would ever dare! PLUS YOUR PREVIOUS COMMENT:-
"Europe' is INFINITELY more important than Irish Home Rule, the Corn Laws, and Franchise Reform combined.
Certainly more important than the 'unity' of the Conservative Party.
What, after all, are they 'united' ABOUT, if not the method by which our nation is governed ?
Everything else is parish trivia by comparison.
It just seems both absurd and unfair to me that SUCH a commanding 'issue' should be left to a struggling 'minority' party to bring before the public."
Everyone:-
Did you know that a new call for a Referendum is now definitely on the cards throughout Europe?
http://www.ukip.org/content/video-zone/1630-nigel-on-politics-show
Let's see how our coalition and their newly elected eurosceptic MPs deal with that!
Before then, my own bated breath is being held to see whether this contrived coalition can actually change our entire constitution by establishing a five year fixed term of government. The arithmetic simply doesn't work out But who can stop them? They have granted themselves unlimited power.
VERY interesting times to be living in.
Jenny of Yorkshire.
Here's somthing you CAN do. [I now expect to be struck off the register AGAIN, if they allow me to post this at all.]
Anyone interested in helping with Toby Horton’s campaign in Thirsk and Malton should contact Jane Collins on 07845 489 080.
The attention of the country’s media will turn to Thirsk and Malton later this month where the delayed general election polling day takes place on May 27.
With the bizarre Con-Dem coalition now in place, and Labour’s failed politicians scrabbling for their party leadership, voters in Thirsk and Malton have the chance to express their attitudes towards the unsatisfactory Westminster situation by voting UKIP.
Toby Horton, UKIP’s new candidate in the constituency invites all Party members, supporters and activists to meet up at Manor Farm, Broughton, Malton YO17 6QJ tomorrow, May 18, at 9am where the local campaign team will be arranging a day of campaign activity.
Then on Wednesday 19 and Thursday 20, volunteers are needed to put up estate agent sized ‘vote UKIP’ banners around the constituency.
Anyone interested in helping with Toby Horton’s campaign in Thirsk and Malton should contact Jane Collins on 07845 489 080.
janeukip@btconnect.com Jane Collins (RO)
toby@horton-family.co.uk Toby Horton (Candidate)
ukip2010@hotmail.co.uk Darren Haley (Toby Horton's Agent)
Jenny - never mind what happened between you and your local branch. The same happened to me and many others I suspect. The enemy is both without and within UKIP. We have the might and the money of the EU stacked against us. Note how Nigel Farage deals with all that has happened to him, [video above.]
Keep the flame alive!
@Margot - I've met Toby Morton couple of times - he's a nice guy and I'm glad the party has got such a decent chap to stand in the Malton area. NO ONE has upset me at my local UKIP branch.
I just decided that I didn't want to be a member of any particular political party. I am a member of various campaign and pressure groups (lobbies) which embrace support from different parties. I wish to have no conflict with any parties which are the right of centre. However, I think from posts I've put on here folks would work out that New Labour as well as the Lib Dems are not the parties I, personally, would choose to support. I see these two parties as the ones which inhibit freedom of expression and diminish civil liberties. That's just my own view - I'm sure others who read this may disagree.
Whatever the outcome in Malton/Thirsk - it will make no difference at this stage. We're in a coalition situation and I feel uneasy about this 55% matter which is being debated at present. I just don't exactly know what will transpire in the course of the coming months, but somehow I have an uneasy feeling.
"Keep the flame alive!"
Amen to that, Margot.
The gods have never quite forgiven Prometheus for nicking the Secret of Fire and giving it to us mortals.
Tough.
They can't have it back now.
But the buggers'll keep trying anyway.
They're SUCH sore losers.....................
Jenny -
Re your:
"At present I don't really know what to think..."
THAT, I'd say, is the sign of a Thinking Person, wouldn't you ?
Only Al Gore supporters and members of the George Osborne Fan Club allow themselves the indulgence of Certainty in these Uncertain Times.
And village idiots.
In so far as there's any detectable difference..............
(Yep - thank God for gardens)
Thanks Martin - yes, I am more of a 'thinking' type of person. Yes, I still don't really know what to think - or feel, only I do sense uncertainty for a variety of reasons:) - going back into the garden now - for another thinking session.