MPs reject David Nuttall Bill
Wednesday, October 13, 2010 MPs today rejected David Nuttall's 10-Minute Rule Bill to amend the smoking ban.
Ayes 86
Noes 141
Majority 55
Simon Clark
Watched the "debate" on BBC Parliament. David gave a good, measured speech concentrating on two issues - the economic case and freedom of choice and localism (ie allowing decisions on smoking policy to be devolved to the lowest appropriate level).
David was opposed by Kevin Barron (Labour), former chairman of the Health Select Committee, whose speech came straight out of the ASH handbook. Sadly, the format of the debate (one speaker only per side) meant that it was impossible for anyone to counter Barron's points which included - as someone has mentioned elsewhere - a comment cherry-picked from (and possibly planted on) David's own blog.
Update: From Smoke and Mirrors by Deborah Arnott and Ian Willmore of ASH (Guardian, July 19, 2006):
Political champions are essential. Our coalition owes a sincere gratitude to numerous politicians and officials. The chief medical officer, Sir Liam Donaldson, risked his own position to argue the case for comprehensive smoke-free legislation. Kevin Barron MP, chair of the health select committee, guided committee members to a unanimous report from his committee on the issue, and persuaded them to back an all-party amendment (framed by our coalition) that forced the government to concede a free vote.
All's not lost, though. As a colleague has just commented: "Disappointing result, but to have over a third of MPs voting on a Ten Minute Rule Bill suggests a continuing strong interest on the issue and we need to maintain momentum."
Too true. The fight goes on.
PS. We'll have the list of MPs who voted later today. Watch this space.
Simon Clark
Guido has this to say:
David Nuttall’s Ten Minute Rule Bill to have the smoking ban amended so that private clubs and pubs would allow smoking, if they wanted it, has sadly just been shot down in the Commons. But the result of ayes 86, noes 141 shows the growing popularity for such an idea. This was a mere lone backbencher’s campaign thrown together hastily on the luck of a draw. With a coordinated movement within the coalition who knows what could happen ...
Click HERE.
Simon Clark
Above: Conservative MP Steve Baker on Twitter.
Simon Clark
MP David Nuttall's bid to end smoking ban in pubs fails (BBC News)
Smoking ban exemptions bid defeated (Press Association)
Reader Comments (23)
How totally typical and desparately disappointing for so many, and not just smokers.
I wonder how many actually listened to his reasoning? Probably not many.
Is total lack of common sense and, in many cases, brain cells, a pre-requisite for getting in government, local and national? It would explain a lot if it were.
Not too bad a result. Given that these things 'test' popularity for future reference, we're getting closer. Even with a second reading, it wouldn't have got anywhere.
Barron said nothing of any import or certainly little that would impress and not the most coherent speech I've heard. The usual anti job, all splutterings and stutterings, quoting the ASH hymn sheet. Obviously these people simply do no research whatsoever to Religiously quote what he's fed, seemingly without question. Wonder who winds him up?
"shows evidence of major health benefits"
What major health benefits?
I have not seen any apart from heart attack studies that demonstrate how bent anti-smoking science is.
"utilitarian arguments for paternalism"
Very funny!
I thought utilitarianism was about making as many people as possible happy NOT just keeping the majority happy!!!
Frankly the task of amending the smoking ban has been made more difficult for us after two Commons defeats.
Barron was reading from a scipt prepared by ASH and I believe the pro choice movement has to challenge ASH and the Department Of Health on second hand smoke, we have the ammunition.
Steve Baker is a colleague of mine at the Progressive Conservatives and in my opinion is an outstanding MP and great bloke.
I'd like to know if my Tory on the fence MP, Karl McCartney voted for or against. Does anyone know?
Same for mine Justine Greening.
Yes it will be very interesting to see who voted.
It's about civil liberty not dodgy statistics.
No - it's about money not compassion and hate not health, Specky. Those MPs should hang their heads in shame for encouraging such hatred and exclusion of a minority group.
When i mentioned in the pub last night that this was happening i had many excited people come up to me and ask me what was going on, your average pub goer/ smoker
are not aware of the truths behind this ban, we need to be reaching a wider audience, its preaching to the converted on the internet, hopefully someone will print a list of the naysayers and they need to be lobbied hard and taught the facts of the real reason for pub closures and ASH lies.
I would add that to have 140 anti MP's voting on a 10 min. rule bill indicates how concerned they are. And it wont go away. I agree with Frosty that those voting no should be the targets. Barron's diatribe showed that.
I'm interested to see how mine voted if at all as the constituency has one of the highest adult smoking rates in England.
If Noe i'll spread it around a LOT.
McCartney WILL get my vote next election. I am impressed. let's hope other;'s will follow
A disappointing result today but not particularly surprising given the susceptibility of so many MPs to brainwashing by the pc police. At the same time it was encouraging to see that almost a third demonstrated some capacity for rational, independant thought.
As others have commented, the issue of smoking, as well as the larger issue of public concern over the erosion of personal liberties, won't go away simply to suit those who seek to control every detail of our lives.
These control freaks who voted against the motion need to understand in no uncertain terms that at the very next opportunity we will vote against those who voted against us. That's democracy.
The majority of MPs that voted for and against were new MPs.
Well it looks like more trips to the continent so i can enjoy my cigars in a nice comfortable atmosphere in countries with sensible smoking policies. Do these MP's really represent their constituents?
Very encouraging and a huge coup for Freedom from Social Fascism that a swing of only 29 voting MPs would take this to an Aye. Thank you David Nuttall, and now it's on to supporting Brian Binley MP's Early Day Motion to force the review of the Nanny State's totalitarian Ban which they reneged on their promise to hold after 3 years.
There is little doubt that once this issue is given its full impetus that it cannot fail to put an end to this new form of Discrimination - bluster all you like Mr. Barron but there ARE no excuses for throwing citizens out onto the streets.
The 'debate' and account of who voted which way is already published in Hansard Online.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmhansrd/cm101013/debtext/101013-0001.htm#10101328000001
Mr. Barron's comments in the House were patronizing and insulting.
Workers in this country, sir, are perfectly able to DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES whether to take on work in a place which allegedly compromises their health, be it a smoky pub, a traffic polluted street, a building site, a fishing boat, any office where flu germs circulate, or indeed any job involving stress.
The LAST thing workers need is someone putting their traditional leisure time bastions - pubs, clubs and bingo halls - out of business by perpetuating frivolous legislation.
You're supposed to be Labour - try helping the preferences and jobs of ALL workers instead of trampling over the preferences and jobs of millions of them in your petty, social engineering crusade.
how many of those voting no to an amended ban actually use pubs regularly. Its not democratic to allow people to vote on an issue which will never effect them. You cant vote for an issue across a cultural divide. eg to force a country to vote on a leader of one religous persuasion when that country has 4 religious factions one of which represents half the population - its madness. People would have voted NO yesterday who may be go to the pub once or twice a month. My wife and I used to frequent our local 5 times every week 52 weeks of the year. Now i'M TOLD yet again that I cant use pubs and I'm being told by people who never use pubs. There is nothing wrong with bar seggregation or even smoking nights and non smoking nights. Smokers contribute maasively to the national tax income and so the NHS burdon is just silly. I think that the whole nation has lost its spark since the ban. People dont shop as much because a cafe or pub break can no longer add that sense of occasion. Holidays in England are worthless. Rail stations are devoid of conversation and commeradery. Cafes are closing as builders breakfasts are a thing of the past. Clothes buying for smokinf ladies is history as they no longer have a siociasl outlet to wear them. I reckon much of the recesssion is due to the damping effect of the human spirit inflicted by the ban. We are all human and cope with our mortality indifferent ways.
Chris Harris - I agree.
It's not only the pubs and clubs that are suffering.
I used to go out in a group of 12 to our local WMC. 6 men, 6 ladies.
The 6 ladies all went to the hairdressers every Saturday - no more.
The 6 ladies all went 'up town' every fortnight for new clothes - no more.
The 6 ladies went 'up town' every fortnight for new handbags, shoes, make-up etc - no more.
The 6 ladies used 2 taxis each week - no more.
The 6 ladies purchased full sheets of bingo tickets and tickets for every draw going- no more.
The 6 ladies instead save their money and use cheap transport to afford them a good few days where they are welcome - abroad.
I am one individual out of millions of smokers. The government needs to understand how much the ban has affected the high street as well as the pubs and clubs and cater for everyone.
I wholeheartedly agree with Helen. Britian is getting to be a horrible place to live in. This is my Country and I used to love it and think how lucky I was to live here, but now I would rather live anywhere but here. Labour absolutely ruined this Country and I dont think this government is going to do anything to make it better. How much thought did the MP's who voted against give it - none obviously or they would realise what damage is being done to businesses. I live in a Holiday Town where during the summer you nomally couldnt get in a pub for holidaymakers - not now because we have lost half our pubs - they have closed down bec ause they couldnt afford to keep going. I am sick to death of governments telling me if I can or cannot smoke, when to put my rubbish out, how much to put out, what I can and cant say, wether I should like someone or not, human nature is what it is and the more you bully there has to be a reckoning one day. So the more the Governments ruin the British way of life, there might one day be no British around for them to govern.
Well said, Cleone and the others. I thought this coalition was going to 'roll back the state'?
Smokers are the most heavily discriminated-against group in the country. Over the years we've accepted no-smoking rules on public transport, in the workplace, at the cinema, in all public buildings etc., and made little fuss about it because there was a reasonable point to these bans.
Smoking in the pub is entirely different. To think that people in WMCs cannot light up is outrageous! Many of these people risked life and limb to save this country from heavy-handed and totalitarianist governments who would institute rules like these!
I would also like to know what happened to all those people who claimed they would fill the bars and pubs once smoking was banned! Where are they? They're not in the pubs, that's evident! The trouble is neither is anyone else!
Moreover, this ban went much further than what was stated in Labour's manifesto - in other words, it was not democratically voted for by the people! We were told there would be LIMITS - not a total BAN!