Wednesday
Aug052009
Poll supports relaxation of smoking ban
Wednesday, August 5, 2009 Further to my post on Monday, Conservative Home reports that "58% of Tory members support relaxation of smoking ban".
Editor Tim Montgomerie writes:
58% of the 1,493 Tory members who voted in Conservative Home's end-July survey of opinion agreed with the contention that 'the Conservatives should relax the smoking ban so that pubs, restaurants and private clubs can apply to allow smoking on their premises'. 39% disagreed. The figures for Conservative voters are similar: 55% to 40%.
Report HERE. You can comment.
Note: the ConHome report links to a blog post by Progressive Vision's Shane Frith promoting the Save Our Pubs & Clubs campaign.
Reader Comments (25)
Great news of course, and all the better for the fact that the Tories decided to publish this part of their poll findings.
We have had two years of Labour and their lackeys suppressing findings like this, and telling us how marvellous the ban is, and how "everyone" absolutely loves it.
Well this is the living proof that "everyone" does not love it. In fact a large majority oppose it.
The next question is, will the Tories go with the majority view, and amend the ban?
My thoughts on this are, yes, they will. If they had no intention of doing anything about it, why would they have published the results?
Heartwarming. Yet I wonder what the result would have been if non-Tories like me were included in the results? I suspect that even more people would have wanted to amend the ban. But it sounds like they're not interested in what non-Tories think. Which is what I suspected.
But didn't the Tories just hold an open ballot to select their next parliamentary candidate for Totnes?
It sounded like a rather sensible idea, to select a candidate that all voters were likely to vote for, not just Tory voters. The Tory voters of Totnes could perhaps be expected to vote for the Tory candidate regardless. It's the non-Tories they were really trying to attract.
If the Conservative party were to come out clearly in favour of amending or repealing the smoking ban, I'd vote for them like a shot. As it is, I have little belief that they will, so most likely I won't.
idlex
Ask yourself this...will the Tories extend the draconian ban? Labour will go further, our own homes will be a future target for Big Brother Labour. You know it makes sense vote Conservative. I don't think Cameron wants to go down in history as Nanny Jnr to Brown.
Mark, I really have no idea whether Cameron is Nanny Jnr or not. I like to think that he isn't. But if he's going to continue to refuse to reconsider the smoking ban, then I can only think that he is.
What do I know about him? Not much. He was himself a smoker, but gave up when he became party leader. He made a great show of cycling to parliament. And he's been greening the Conservative party. All very healthy and environmentally friendly. He didn't vote on the occasion that parliament voted to ban smoking, because his wife was having a baby, so we don't know where he stood there. But he refuses to reconsider the smoking ban now that it's in place, which leads me to suspect that he would have voted for a total ban.
The charge that has been levelled at him - that he's a political chameleon - always strikes me as rather accurate. He's what Tony Benn would call a weathervane rather than a signpost. Margaret Thatcher was a signpost. I may not have liked where she was pointing, but she certainly pointed very firmly in that direction.
Cameron seems a likeable enough chap. But I have no idea what, if anything, he really believes. I think that he depends upon opinion polls to determine what policies to support. Which is the way that weathervanes behave. And this means that he's just as likely to be Nanny Jnr as anything else, if he thinks that's what will increase Tory popularity.
That said, I've not heard him say much about global warming recently. Nor have I seen him on his bike. Maybe the weathervane is beginning to sense that public opinion has been shifting since he became Tory leader. Or maybe not.
Do you know something I don't know?
Idlex asks: Do you know something I don't know?
We do know that a Conservative website held a poll asking if we thought it was time to amend the smoking ban.
We also know that the Conservative website published the results of that poll for all to see.
And we know that the Tories held an open ballot to select their next parliamentary candidate for Totnes. Not just from local Tories either, but from everyone.
It doesn't take much working out to realise that the Tories are listening to what the people want.
You can surmise all you want, but you have to admit that it was Labour who implemented the smoking ban in the first place. It is also Labour that will not listen to anyone. It is Labour who constantly lie about the ban and say how much everyone is pleased with it, and how ell it is working.
How much more proof do you need before changing your voting habits?
p.s. ell is supposed to be "well"
Good news! Comment duly posted on the link.
p.s. ell is supposed to be "well"
I rather think that it was better the way it was. Flippin' 'ell, we all know how 'ell the ban is working. It's 'ell! Sheer 'ell!
As for your other points, they're perfectly valid, but just because a Tory blog shows signs of listening to smokers, I can't see that the Tory leadership is listening as well. And it's what David Cameron and the Tory leadership think that matters. And I don't see any sign that they're shifting their opinion.
For all I know, there may well be as many Labour party members and voters who hate the ban as much as I do. But the Labour leadership is all set to plough on regardless of them.
Please don't think I'm going to vote Labour. I'm not. I'm going to vote for the party that says it's going to amend the smoking ban. And the Conservative party isn't one of them.
Firstly Idlex, I don't think ConservativeHome is just a "blog" (someone correct me if I'm wrong) As far as I know, it is the voice of the Conservatives, reporting everything that is going on within the Conservative Party, and as you know, conducting polls on behalf of the Conservative Party.
With that in mind, I am pretty sure that the Tory leadership is listening!
Regarding your last comment about voting for the party that says it's going to amend the smoking ban.
What would you do if one of the parties said it would do this, and in another part of its manifesto, it also said it would cut hospital beds? Hypothetical of course, but I am interested to know what your reaction would be to this?
What would you do if one of the parties said it would do this, and in another part of its manifesto, it also said it would cut hospital beds?
That's really a question about which I regard as being more important, the health of hospital patients or the well-being of the community.
Since I regard the smoking ban as by far the most destructive law to have been introduced in Britain in my entire lifetime, and to affect millions of people rather than hundreds, and sometimes resulting their deaths as I wrote about in an essay on F2C, I wouldn't have much hesitation in regarding repealing or amending the smoking ban as more important.
You could equally have asked the same question about anything else. e.g. hospital beds or X/Y/Z.
I think it's interesting that you choose another health risk in your hypothetical example. That may be because, like many doctors, you regard health as paramount, and far more important than anything else, including personal freedom, community, etc. It isn't. And all those soldiers and sailors and airmen who fought and died for this country testify to the fact that some things matter much more than health, and more than even life itself.
I don't think ConservativeHome is just a "blog" (someone correct me if I'm wrong) As far as I know, it is the voice of the Conservatives, reporting everything that is going on within the Conservative Party, and as you know, conducting polls on behalf of the Conservative Party.
I can't find anything on the site which says what its official status is. If it was the official voice of the Conservatives, I'd expect it to say so somewhere. In fact, all it seems to say is that it provides "Comprehensive coverage of Britain's Conservative Party". Which could be done by an organisation independent of the Conservative party.
So, until I am informed otherwise, I'll continue to regard it as being a Tory blog, even if it is clearly a highly influential one.
Perhaps hospital beds wouldn't be at such a premium if people were allowed to live their lives without worrying or stressing about stupid, derisory little laws that say we can't make our own decisions.
The weight of the burden put upon this country by this government is so heavy that I would hazard a guess that more people are unwell now, since the smoking ban came into force, than were before.
At the end of 2006 I first saw a psychiatrist who promptly told me that their workload had already almost doubled since the smoking ban was announced, even though it was not coming into effect for about 9 months!
This government isn't just blinkered, it is totally blind - ok Gordy only has one eye, but I am sure he can't see out of that one either!
I keep hearing Tim Montgomerie being interviewed in the national media so I'd guess it's pretty influential, Idlex.
According to Wikipedia,
ConservativeHome is a British political website started by Tim Montgomerie prior to the 2005 United Kingdom general election campaign,[1] that aims to represent UK grassroots Conservative opinion.
That is to say that it's Tim Montgomerie's own website. Montgomerie doesn't even seem to be a Tory MP. He was Political Secretary to Ian Duncan Smith, and is a bit of a mover and shaker in the party.
ConservativeHome is completely independent of the Conservative Party. The official Conservative blog is The Blue Blog.
I will ask you again...do you think the Conservatives will extend the draconian ban? Do you accept Labour will stop at nothing short of a ban in all homes?
A muted welcome for the result , of course.
But I'm a little concerned that - in this self-selecting poll - 4 out of 10 Conservatives (?) were NOT in favour of Freedom of Choice.
For many Tories, sifting through the shopping list of items, the Ban will have been of little consequence, of course ('I don't smoke').
Or - to put it another way - they STILL fail to see that the issue is about MUCH more than my/our selfish desire to bring nicotine back into pub and club culture.
Will 58% be enough to compel Cameron to ARGUE FOR amendment ?
To LEAD Public Opinion - rather than shuffle along behind it like a timid schoolboy ?
Idlex' remarks about 'weathervane' politicians are especially pertinent here...........
Just have to wait, I guess.
I think that fairly much disposes of any notion that ConservativeHome is any sort of official Tory blog. It's a blog for grassroot Tory opinion. And according to Charlotte Gore it's the 19th ranked UK blog.
No doubt it gets read by lots of Tories, but it shouldn't be seen as a reflection of official Conservative party policy.
Mark asks me do you think the Conservatives will extend the draconian ban? Do you accept Labour will stop at nothing short of a ban in all homes?
No, I don't expect the Conservatives will extend the ban. But I don't think Labour will ban smoking in all homes either. If nothing else, the latter would be unenforceable. Labour may well extend the ban in other ways, however.
My point is that I don't see much difference between the three main parties about the smoking ban. The Conservatives are just marginally less nannying than Labour. Just today Tim Montgomerie wrote on ConservativeHome:
I can see the case for a narrow relaxation of the ban - insofar as private clubs want to allow smoking. My understanding, however, is that Shadow Health Secretary Andrew Lansley - a great believer in public health - does not want to return to the issue.
Let me know when they have decided to return to the issue, and I might vote for them. Until then it's going to be UKIP for me.
ConservativeHome, is independent of the Conservative Party but is very sympathetic. Because of the independence, being a Tory enthusiast, I feel more comfortable telling Cameron what I really mean (e.g. smoking ban, Lisbon Treaty) than I would do on the BlueBlog.
As it is a little more honest and critical, Conservative MPs, advisors and even shadow ministers review its contents to feel the pulse, so to speak. For example Tim Montgomerie raised an eyebrow recently at Cameron's centralisation of power, and that he does not look beyond his immediate "clique" for advice.
58% of Tories want an amendment to the smoking ban. At worst I do not think any further legislation will be enacted, and a 2 or 3 term administration could see the nanny state rolled back.
Please debate my point of view, but do you guys know the most visited political site in this country by a factor of 3X? Wrong, the BNP. As the odious BNP are denied airtime on Brown's Broadcasting Company (BBC) and other mainstream media outlets the web offers a rapid, accessible and immediate platform.
The libertarian, centre-right (e.g. Taking Liberties) are the most organised, erudite and motivated in the blogosphere, believe you me over the last days we have made an articulate point.
To be honest, I believe that the tories won't introduce further restrictions for smokers.
On saying that though, I still remain to be convinced that they will even make a 'tweak', never mind an amendment, to the ban.
I do think however that many believe that the tories will do something about it - I hope that they are right.
I also believe that if the tories do not do anything about this law, when so many are expecting them to, then the future of British politics will be thrown into the unknown.
Other than the zealots, all excuses for this ban are pathetic. Public health is not a reason for a blanket ban. I'm just hoping that the tories won't side with the zealots, but I suppose only time will tell.
The most important things that we have to bear in mind are these:
1. That grown-up people can decide for themselves whether or not they wish to smoke.
2. That the statistics prove WITHOUT ANY DOUBT WHATSOEVER that SHS is harmless.
In order to get our country back into some sort of reasonable autonomy, it is imperative that the Cons must revisit and rethink everything that has happened in the last ten years or so.
For example, the Lisbon Treaty. I have read lots and lots of stuff saying that this treaty is a bad thing (without being specific), but I have not read A SINGLE WORD which extolles the virtues of the treaty. Why is the Labour Party so gung-ho about this treaty? Why is this treaty so good for this country? Just TELL ME, and I may agree.
It is hard to see why Dave C should consider the Smoking Ban as having any significance, once he is elected. The fact that he gets elected because smokers vote for him (if I may personalise it in this way) may be of no significance to him. Nevertheless, it seems to be Conservative policy to repeal the Hunting Ban! Who knows? Maybe he will find an excuse not to.
I don't feel so well.
No matter what the argument 58% gives a clear message of the importance that politians be kept reminded of how much the serious nature of the issue, that this draconian smoking ban means to people.
Time (methinks) for the courageous Martin Durkin to do to the Ban what he did to the Great Global Warming Scam (aka 'Swindle') on Channel 4.
(Sadly, no chance with Auntie - now that she's morphed into Patricia Hewitt).
Not everybody will listen, of course, but.....Andrew Lansley MIGHT.
we all know brown does not listen and come election day we will get our own back and i wished i could be a fly on the wall in number 10 when that happens.I cannot wait for election day to see these control freaks knocked off their pedestall. But in the mean time we all have to endure listening to the lies they keep telling us.I hope that when labour is knocked out we never ever see them in power again. I would also like to see cameron have the guts to change some if not all the polices labour has brought in. We all know britain has been ruined by labour and its up to us to make sure they never get into office again. ( god help us all if they do ) They should rename their party the natzi party.
Pat -
You're getting close.
Consider the following interesting quotes:
"It is not TRUTH that matters, but VICTORY."
"The day of INDIVIDUAL happiness has PASSED."
"What good fortune for governments that the people DO NOT THINK."
"Make the lie BIG, make it SIMPLE, KEEP saying it, and eventually they WILL believe it.
- ADOLPH HITLER
Four questions for the inhabitants of the Anglosphere:
1) Aren't you glad now that we 'won' the War ?
2) WHERE did all the Bright Young Nazis go - in 1945 (with their Golden Hoard of Loot) ?
3) What's in a NAME, anyway ?
4) WHEN will the penny drop ?