Money talks in Holyrood
Wednesday, July 15, 2009 You can now book to attend "Holyrood's Smoking Conference" which will examine "the impact and enforcement of the Tobacco and Primary Medical Services (Scotland) Bill".
"Support for the Bill amongst the public is strong," say the organisers, "with 89% supporting the licensing scheme and 57% supporting the removal of promotional displays in a recent YouGov poll commissioned by ASH Scotland. A recent study published in the Tobacco Control Journal put the cost of smoking to the NHS in Scotland at £409 million.
"However, there are other arguments which also need to be addressed – smokers purchases make a significant contribution to the Scottish economy, and tobacco sales are arguably key to the survival of many small retailers. While anti-smoking campaigners refer to public support for display bans, retailers have warned that this will remove one of the key draws bringing customers to small shops rather than supermarkets and the fears of retailers need to be addressed."
The first session of the conference, in Edinburgh on September 23, "will set out the content of the Tobacco and Primary Medical Services (Scotland) Bill and outline the Government’s intentions ... The session will also include information on the health impact of smoking in Scotland, particularly focussing on the relationship between tobacco consumption and inequalities and how the smoking ban has affected communities in Scotland.
"Speakers will also address the question of whether legislation such as this is blurring lines of personal choice and responsibility and illustrating a move towards limits on personal decision-making."
I've no problem with any of that ... except for one thing. Who is going to address the questions of personal choice and personal decision-making? Take a look at the speakers:
- Shona Robison MSP, Minister for Public Health and Sport, The Scottish Government
- Eamonn Rossi, Chief Executive, Office of Tobacco Control, Ireland
- John Drummond, Chief Executive, Scottish Grocers Federation
- Dr Laurence Gruer OBE, Director of Public Health Science, NHS Health Scotland
- Dave Roderick, Chairman, SCOTSS
Three of the five "key speakers" are fully paid up members of the anti-smoking industry. Dave Roderick represents trading standards. John Drummond will stand up for retailers, but what about the consumer or the liberal non-smoker? Who's going to represent us?
The cost of attending the conference ranges from £249 (commercial organisations, central government departments, agencies and other national public bodies), £199 (local authorities, NHS, police, trade unions, professional associations, and charitable organisations with an income over £1m) to £149 (charitable organisations with income of less than £1m).
In other words, apart from a handful of delegates, the vast majority will be there courtesy of the taxpayer (you and me!).
That, of course, is the crux of the matter. This is a commercial venture. It's also where the private and public sector meet. The organisers want to see bums on seats and they will have calculated that the public sector isn't going to pay top dollar to listen to the likes of me.
Therefore, I have suggested a compromise speaker - Brian Monteith, former member of the Scottish Parliament, former spokesman for Forest in Scotland, now policy director of The Free Society and a columnist on the Edinburgh Evening News.
Watch this space.
Reader Comments (11)
Simon, do you have an address to apply for a ticket to speak, please.
Be it Brian Monteith or anyone else who speaks on behalf of the truth, PLEASE urge them to not utter ONE word which gives credence to any part of the "Smoking is bad for you" lie. To say that while we admit smoking may be bad for you, people should have freedom of choice, is absolutely no attack/defence whatsoever and plays right into the enemy's hands.
I hope that Dave Atherton gets the chance to speak. He has researched the true scientific versus contrived pseudo-scientific evidence thoroughly and I bring to your attention a recent link he gave in a topic below:-
http://mr--a.blogspot.com/2009/07/at-last-scientists-come-out-against.html
I have myself constantly given links to the actual Benefits of Smoking, [F2C Lounge Bar Forum], but don't keep a filing system on the subject as DaveA does. Of particular interest are the studies which show children who grow up in a smoke filled atmosphere have greater immunity to disease than those who don't.
The latest phenomena, "swine flu", [which could be man-made], does not attack people over 65. That generation were exposed, from birth,to tobacco smoke at home and in all public places. Many of them continue to smoke. Swine flu seems to attack people aged 40 and younger and it is for the last 40 years that lying propoganda regarding the dangers of smoking has consisently removed it from public places and home environments.
Time will be limited and the subject narrow at this conference but it is essential, before we have a speaker to represent us, that they themselves are thoroughly convinced there is no scientific truth in the lies that smoking is harmful.
Very true Margot, I hope Dave gets a ticket and goes along to the conference to help dispel the 'smoking is bad for you' myth with his real knowledge and science and addresses the very essential questions of personal choice and personal decision making.
The small retailers should join up with pub owners against the smoking ban.
This Bill (which is a 'proposal' that the Scottish Government wish to become Law) has been put to the Scottish Parliament. If you are prepared to thrutch about a bit, you can read the actual Bill. You need to enter 'the tobacco and primary medical services (scotland) bill' into your search engine and find your way to it. As usual, it is not easy.
Note that, once again, the anti-smoking aspect has been linked to other 'worthy' medical things, in the same way that the Smoking Ban in England was linked up to other 'worthy' medical causes.
It proposes that tobacco products cannot be displayed, among other things. I am sure that, in due course, a similar Bill will appear in England.
What we Forester have to really, really understand is that England is very, very different from Scotland and Ireland. In Scotland, the two main parties are the Scottish Nationalists and the Labour Party. Both are virilently anti-smoking, so it does not matter which you vote for.
In Ireland, a similar political scenario exists. In England, it is possible that there is no such political consensus. It is hard to be sure.
There is only one sensible conclusion to be drawn.
As far as we smokers are concerned, Scotland and Ireland are irrelevent. They can do what they like. But, I'll bet a pound to a penny that, if ENGLAND relaxed the smoking ban, TOURIST IMPERATIVE would ensure that, quietly and surreptisciously, the Scots and Irish would follow suit.
What we have at the moment is that England (MASSIVE population compared with Scotland and Ireland) is following those countries. It is as though Scotland and Ireland are being used as 'experiments' by England to see what happens.
One can envisage a situation where, had Scotland and Ireland had a MASSIVE rebellion against the smoking ban, it would not have happened in England at all. But, it is not reasonable to expect such a rebellion because the Scots and the Irish are NOT, generally speaking, pub-goers - in the sense that we English people mean. Of course, it is reasonable to ask, "Why did the English people not protest?" The answer is that THEY DID! It was the PUBLICANS who succumbed!
WHY DID PUBLICANS NOT FIGHT THE BAN WITH EVERY FIBRE OF THEIR BEING? What was the matter with them? Why should I, an ordinary citizen be fighting their battle for them? I'm sorry, but I will not do it!
Let me put it another way.
I am now only going to the pub about 50% of what I did before the ban. The FUN in the pub gets less and less, and so I expect that my attendence will get less and less. Eventually, my attendence at my local pub will cease - I will do other things - that is not a problem. Sod the publicans!
'Save Our Pubs' means 'Save Our Publicans', but they will not try to save themselves!
It is all very sad.
I think that I may stop posting and stop bothering my brain at all.
I can understand your dispair with the whole pub scene Junican, I feel the same and dont go to pubs or restaurants any more.
My only hope is that England, with its marvellous sense of fair play and fighting spirit, will get this stupid ban amended in the hope that it will have a knock on effect in Scotland and Ireland.
You're quite right, all the political parties in Ireland are totally anti smoking, except that is, one brave sole in the opposition party who smoked in the govt bar in protest at the introduction of the ban in 2004 and was quickly fired from govt. That soon set the agenda as regards further protests.
Unfortunately the person who fired him (a thorough gobshite) now looks like being our next PM.
As I said before the EU did a psych test on Ireland with its stupid/inept/power mad govt that did nothing only promote greed among its people, and figured it was ripe for 'world leader' status for introducing the smoking ban and the rest is history. Even the smokers themselves are brainwashed at this stage and believe the scam.
So as our wonderful politicians love to copy the bigger players, in fear of having to govern on their own, as in not accepting our democratic vote on Lisbon, I wait in excited anticipation that good ol England will achieve what most continental countries have already done and kick this stupid, draconian smoking ban back into touch!
Yes. Let's pretend that smoking is good for you. That'll really make the government take us seriously, won't it?
And Junican's comment made me laugh - "the Scots and the Irish are NOT, generally speaking, pub-goers - in the sense that we English people mean."
Do you mean that people in Scotland and Ireland don't go to pubs? Have you ever been to either Scotland or Ireland? Do you genuinely believe that there is a qualitative difference in the way people visit pubs in those countries?
Comments like these totally play into the hands of the tobacco control lobby. Is it any wonder that smokers' rights activists have so little credibility, and that governments at all levels find it so unbelievably easy to introduce tobacco control legislation?
Just for the record to back up what Alan the population of Ireland is 4,156,000 and pre ban had 10,000 pubs. Pre ban Britain had 60,000 pubs against a population of 60,000,000.
So approximately Ireland has 250% more pubs per head than the UK.
Alan and Dave
I suppose you are right about Scottish and Irish pubs. Maybe I should withdraw that remark.
But it was based on personal experience. Over a period of ten years or more, I travelled extensively in Scotland and Ireland with some friends playing golf. Every year, we based ourselves at a different place and played the courses in that area and, of course, visited different pubs around the towns we stayed at. Sometimes, we were on the East coast, sometimes, the West coast, sometimes North and sometimes South. Similarly in Ireland.
Yes, there were lots of pubs, but they tended to be very small. There was a pub near Drogheda called Moran's (claimed to be the oldest pub in Ireland, but several do) which consisted of a front room which was a grocery shop and a back room (size of an ordinary living room) which was the pub. After the shop shut, about three small, round tables with about twelve stools were placed in the shop as additional seating space! I cannot imagine how they made a profit. But it was fun.
Another time, in St Andrews, considering that the time of year was June and that the town was packed with golfers, students and tourists, the pubs we went to were almost deserted. There was hardly a soul about after nine pm.
Other places were similar.
How could they make a profit? One possibility is that land and building rents are ofter only a fraction of those in England.
Anyway, I bow to Alan's and Dave's superior knowledge in this area and withdraw.
Junican you are also right now. Post ban Ireland have lost 15% of their pubs, down to 8,500, I don't have the figures for 2008 and 2009 yet! This will mean we will lose about 10,000 pubs 3 years after the ban.
As you rightly point point out many pubs to survive in Ireland have diversified into shops and even post offices to make ends meet.
"Yes. Let's pretend that smoking is good for you. That'll really make the government take us seriously, won't it?"
- Alan Hammond:
Would you care to elaborate on your statement above?
Here is a gentle reminder of why smoking is good for you.
http://frank-davis.livejournal.com/7703.html