Thursday
Jan152009
Litter: let's have a heated debate
Thursday, January 15, 2009 To paraphrase Mrs Merton, there is heated debate on the Scotsman website today. Responding to the question, "Is it acceptable to fine people £50 for dropping a cigarette butt?" Forest's Neil Rafferty goes head-to-head with Donna Niven of Keep Scotland Beautiful. To comment, click HERE.
Update on Thursday, January 15, 2009 by
Simon Clark
Simon Clark
Some calling himself "Captain Flint" has commented on the Scotsman site: "Neil Rafferty is an absolute disgrace, desperately trying to perpetuate this ridiculous myth that smokers are somehow 'persecuted'. The man's a joke." Ha, ha. Over to you.
in Litter
Litter
Reader Comments (9)
The ban has had the desired effect and increased smoking litter. It was bound to happen which is what they wanted. They create a problem so they can bring in the 'solution'.
Were the streets knee deep in cigarette ends 50 years ago when around 70% smoked, no. They had street cleaners. A choice between more street cleaners and enforcers is an easy one for the authoritarian mind sweeping through our lives. Enforcers win every time. That is the society they are now building at an alarming rate.
You can apply David Icke's 'Problem-Reaction- Solution' to most of what's happening in the world today and with hindsight in the past too.
I throw my cigarette ends in a bin, of which there are too few. I don't have much sympathy for those fined, although I agree that smokers are being targeted. This is just good business by councils - probably nothing personal. Follow a smoker and you have have a good chance of catching him dropping a cig end. There are more smokers than outdoor eaters and during the day, when the eaters are sober and their are people about, they generally put their cartons in bins. Smokers won't further their cause by complaining about the fines. Don't get caught dropping cig ends.
Jon. If they follow a smoker they don't have to wait for a dropped fag end, they could fine them for dropping cigarette ash.
I have often wondered about the cigarette ash - if that is litter and the councils can fine smokers for dropping it, what about the dust that comes from car brakes - brake dust - that is being deposited by every car on the road? Cigarette ash cannot be any more of a problem than that, surely!
Again, even if people did use these pocket ashtrays, which are sometimes not possible to use when your hands are full of shopping, or whatever, but on windy days, with the best will in the world, your cigarette ash will not stay in the recepticle! Or this just a precursor to ban us from smoking in the street now as well as anywhere inside, apart from our own homes (for now anyway)?
As for Jon who commendibly puts his cig ends in the bin, has he set fire to any yet? This is a huge danger, especially in the summer months - it is not always possible to make sure that it is completely extinguished before depositing it. That is why at home we never empty ashtrays until the morning as they may appear to have nothing but dead butts in them, but we don't take the chance. Husband is an ex-fireman and that is the advice they used to give - not sure if they still do, but it is sound advice, nonethless!
My biodegradable roll-up ends are posited on the pavement. If I see an outdoor no-smoking notice, I'll stubb on that. No way am I going to feel coerced by this extremist agenda into feeling ashamed of my pleasure.
Meanwhile, the sanctimonious hypocritical peecee nulabots approve a third runway at Heathrow, thus bringing more noise and pollution on those living nearby, who have had no say in the matter.
I carry my own pocket ashtray and use it despite the fact that on occasion I've been laughed at for even having one!
My cigaretes are totally biodegradeable. Tobacco is a plant, the paper I roll it in is made from a tree, and even the cardboard in the end which I use as a tip is also made of plant matter. What is the problem? And why is there not an even bigger debate about how much chewing gum is stuck to the streets? It takes a decade to wear out, and an awful lot of public money to clean up.
Bearing this in mind, I think it is completely fair to say that smokers are persecuted.
Lyn. I was joking about cigarette ash, although I wouldn't be surprised if one day somebody was fined for flicking theirs. Tree leaves during the 'Fall' are very dangerous during frosty or wet weather and fly-tipping is by far a bigger problem.
Jon...You don't have much sympathy for people who drop cigarette ends and are fined? like the elderly people who have been fined recently even after picking them up? Where do you draw the line, because there is no empathy towards anyone who fails to bend to this madness, and no honour to anyone who agrees with it!
My God how did this country survive before fag-end litterbugs were prosecuted. It must have been an awful place to live. Now of course it's a much better place having to look over your shoulder before doing anything in public, and being pursued by mindless enforcers who will pounce on any granny who has dropped a tipper. They must be so proud, are you?
I think more people on this site need to connect these 'minor' laws to a much bigger picture, The 'step by step' invasion into hithertoe unenforced areas of our lives, is a softening up process, designed to get people to roll over to ever more invasive laws that will surely come, at a faster and faster rate, which is happening right now.
Chas, I have come to the conclusion that it is dangerous these days to joke about such things, as the morons who make up these laws and have them enforced have obviously had their sense of humour removed. Plus, it is giving them the ideas that own poor, pathetic brains (assuming they have one) couldn't manage to come up with themselves!
Joking aside, I do believe we need to be a little bit careful as I am sure the snoops are out there checking out sites like these to get more ideas of ways to get money out of smokers and drivers in particular! Not that I am paranoid, you understand - much!